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Come off it BC(Boca Caballeo) you know that the Ballydoyle horses have all been under the weather since April.Even Aidan and Murtagh admitted yesterday that Air C M was a different horse this week.
Not with a worry over the stables form it isn’t, I can recall a far better Derby winner getting beat in the race at 1-14, his name? Santa Claus
I’m interested to know why you think Santa Claus was a far better Derby winner than Workforce ?
I assume you’re too young to remember him?
Maybe the fact Santa Claus started at14-1 on
in a King George tells you more than I can about the opinions on their comparative merits
How many would have to drop out of next Saturday’s race for Workforce to go off at 1-14?I assume you’re too young to remember him?
Maybe the fact Santa Claus started at14-1 on
in a King George tells you more than I can about the opinions on their comparative merits
How many would have to drop out of next Saturday’s race for Workforce to go off at 1-14?Oh I do remember Santa Claus. The fact that he started at odds of 2/13 on ( not 1/14 as you wrongly state
) in the 1964 King George against three very moderate opponents, and beaten by possibly the worst winner of the race ever; namely, Nasram 
, tells me very little about the comparative merits of him and Workforce – a horse who has run the fastest Derby ever and who is still in the midst of his racing career – and who most probably will win the King George next week.If only Scobie had ridden Santa Claus that day at Ascot, then who knows, it just might have touched 1/14 (
)… and hey, he might just have won ! 
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I assume you’re too young to remember him?
Maybe the fact Santa Claus started at14-1 on
in a King George tells you more than I can about the opinions on their comparative merits
How many would have to drop out of next Saturday’s race for Workforce to go off at 1-14?Oh I do remember Santa Claus. The fact that he started at odds of 2/13 on ( not 1/14 as you wrongly state
) in the 1964 King George against three very moderate opponents, and beaten by possibly the worst winner of the race ever; namely, Nasram , tells me very little about the comparative merits of him and Workforce – a horse who has run the fastest Derby ever and who is still in the midst of his racing career – and who most probably will win the King George next week.If only Scobie had ridden Santa Claus that day at Ascot, then who knows, it just might have touched 1/14 (
)… and hey, he might just have won ! As I remember it, yes there was a small field, Santa Claus scared off the opposition, there were two French horses in the race, the winner (I think) and a mare in season which was ettled right infront of Santa Claus who wouldn’t pass her, too interested in his future stud duties, Lester just couldn’t get the colt out from behind the mare until it was too late, could have sworn he was 14s ON but if you’ve got records that say otherwise……
Sorry CS, not trying to rub salt into your fading memory
, but Willie Burke rode Santa Claus that day, not Lester.Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
If Workforce had a Willie Burke riding would he be money on to win? I don’t think so.
As you saw today….Ryan Moore is riding like a proper Jockey(Top Class rider)
I can’t see how he can be beaten. Workforce looks every inch a champion. I truly hope he is.
As Vincent O Brien said "if you got 2 or 3 derby possibles u got none" or something to that affect. Ballydoyle is no exception to this rule except for the injured St Nicholas
As you saw today….Ryan Moore is riding like a proper Jockey(Top Class rider)
I can’t see how he can be beaten. Workforce looks every inch a champion. I truly hope he is.
As Vincent O Brien said "if you got 2 or 3 derby possibles u got none" or something to that affect. Ballydoyle is no exception to this rule except for the injured St Nicholas
Which is quite ironic, as Teddy Grimthorpe put up Bullet Train as the owners most likely Derby winner.
JohnJ.
- Total Posts 17716
To further emphasise the sense of Harbinger as a Lost Cause for the King George, I note that Richard Hughes is quoted in today’s Racing Post online as having been approached by the connections with a view to riding the Stoute 2nd string. Hughes decided to stick with old Youmzain – and we know that
he
can’t possibly win, although probably nailed on for second!
Now there are only 8 runners Dar Re Mi @ 12.1 loks a good EW bet to me forget last run a 4 runner race and she needed that anyway
Sorry CS, not trying to rub salt into your fading memory
, but Willie Burke rode Santa Claus that day, not Lester.Yes Lester Piggott was 3rd on Royal Avenue for Noel Murless
Now there are only 8 runners Dar Re Mi @ 12.1 loks a good EW bet to me forget last run a 4 runner race and she needed that anyway
I took the 14/1 a couple of weeks ago…Shes back out to 14/1 now the runners have been depleted. Strange…only thing I can think of is that she’d be suited by a bigger field but that doesn’t add up either.
Anyone think they know why Dar Re Mi has drifted in the Ante Post market?
Now there are only 8 runners Dar Re Mi @ 12.1 loks a good EW bet to me forget last run a 4 runner race and she needed that anyway
I took the 14/1 a couple of weeks ago…Shes back out to 14/1 now the runners have been depleted. Strange…only thing I can think of is that she’d be suited by a bigger field but that doesn’t add up either.
Anyone think they know why Dar Re Mi has drifted in the Ante Post market?
Well since 1959 only 6 fillys/Mares have won the race 7 – 2nds 5 – 3rds .But Since 1959 all winners had won their last race bar 15 – 7 2nd 5 3rd 1 5th 2 6th .Thats 36 won their last race
We must be at the prices.
He beats a cup horse in the John Porter, a half fit cup horse at Chester and a zero pace borderline Group 2 horse in the Hardwicke and suddenly he’s rated 5lbs better than a median Group 1 winning horse.
Now he’s 5/2 to beat an Epsom Derby course record holder, a back to form resolute Irish Derby winner and a high class genuine Group 1 filly who beat 8 Group 1 winners in Dubai and who has run to within 2 and 4 lengths of Conduit and Sea The Stars respectively, back over her best trip.
Has the world gone mad?
As you saw today….Ryan Moore is riding like a proper Jockey(Top Class rider)
I can’t see how he can be beaten. Workforce looks every inch a champion. I truly hope he is.
As Vincent O Brien said "if you got 2 or 3 derby possibles u got none" or something to that affect. Ballydoyle is no exception to this rule except for the injured St Nicholas
Which is quite ironic, as Teddy Grimthorpe put up Bullet Train as the owners most likely Derby winner.
JohnJ.
He also said Workforce was a guineas horse.
Well since 1959 only 6 fillys/Mares have won the race 7 – 2nds 5 – 3rds .But Since 1959 all winners had won their last race bar 15 – 7 2nd 5 3rd 1 5th 2 6th .Thats 36 won their last race
True, but if you focus just on the 6 winning fillies/mares, the picture is less clear cut.
Aunt Edith (1966) finished 6th to Prominer in the Hardwicke immediately prior to winning her King George. Park Top (1969) was 2nd to Wolver Hollow in the Eclipse, and Time Charter (1983) also tasted defeat in the Eclipse, 6th to Solford, prior to tasing victory in the KG.
Dahlia and Pawneese (1976 Oaks), two exceptional French trained fillies, both won their races immediately prior to their KG victories, Dahlia on two occasion (Irish Oaks – 1973 and Grand Prix De St Cloud – 1974).
Aunt Edith did not meet the 1966 Epsom Derby winner at Ascot but did take on and beat 6/4f Sodium who had won the Curragh equivalent and would later defeat the Epsom Derby winner Charlottown in the Leger.
Park Top admittedly won one of the weakest King George’s of all time.
Time Charter on the other hand had to contend with the 1983 Oaks winner Sun Princess (and subsequent Yorkshire Oaks and Leger winner) to whom she conceded 13lbs, and French Derby winner and Irish Derby runner up Caerleon (who would go onto win the Juddmonte International) – giving him 10lbs. Note Teenoso the Epsom Derby winner of 1983 had finished behind Caerleon in the Irish equivalent.
Although Teenoso failed to show, the Epsom runner up Carlingford Castle did turn up and finished 6th beaten 1 3/4 lengthsx, in receipt of 10lbs -he had finished 3 lengths adrift of Teenoso at Epsom at level weights.
From these facts it would seem that a filly/mare can win a King George off the back of a defeat, and in two instances have been able to give weight to Derby winners.
Whilst I personally don’t think Dar Re Mi is up to winning this year’s renewal, I do think she has a tremendous chance of finishing in the places and 14/1 seems terrific value – Harbinger at a fraction of the odds still has it to prove at Gp 1 level whereas the Gosden mare has doen it at the top flight on three occasions, most recently against the colts.
Great post Ivanjica. Great to learn a little about the past. To be honest, stats and records don’t mean very much to me when it comes to these races. The fact only so many fillies won a certain race is inconsequential. The facts that are important are – what the filly has achieved compared to what her rivals have achieved. This race is the only one that matters, not any of the previous ones.
@ Shirleyheights
And for interests sake, how many of those King Georges were contested by fillies?
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