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I am just doing my thing with the results from the weekend and the SP’s from Kempton seem to be really bad .. not just the usual jiggery-pokery but worse than that ..
The 4:35 race had an overround of 111% between 4 runners.
That’s an unbelieveable 2.75% per runner.The 5:40 had an overround of 136% between 13 runners.
again 2.75% per runner.It doesn’t particularly affect me but this doesn’t bode well for the future, how can that sort of unfettered greed be justified.
That’s the same margins as the FOTB’s. I think Kempton AW racing needs abandoned, for good, what a disgrace.
Dave, the figures you present are disgusting. The similarities between FOBT’s, AW racing and cartoon racing are striking. Fixed margin betting products for the bookmakers.
Any of the journalists on here prepared to start a campaign for the ordinary punter who bets at SP?
Always amazes me how quick people are to call for the head of Barney Curley for stiffing the punters when this type of piracy happens every day without almost a whisper.
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Any of the journalists on here prepared to start a campaign for the ordinary punter who bets at SP?
Cavelino Rampante
Always amazes me how quick people are to call for the head of Barney Curley for stiffing the punters when this type of piracy happens every day without almost a whisper.
Dream on, guys!
Where’s the mileage in attacking the establishment?
(Though Barney Curley does shed some light on the situation in his podcasts.)
Betting at SP is 99 per cent folly for serious players at any meeting, never mind Kempton. It is strictly for ‘amusement only’ punters, akin to placing coins in slot machines. This is now accepted as a self evident truth amongst forum members and is to the shame of the betting industry. They have absolutely no intention of even thinking about improving the margins.
Whats the problem?
If you dont like it…use betfair…or chase the prices on course
Comparisons with Curley are irrelevant. Ridiculous even
Punters bet on FOBT’s and premieship football because although the margins may be poor, they do not feel that they are being cheated about the result. I think that many ordinary punters would rather bet on low margins straight football than high margin bent racing
Dream on, guys!
Where’s the mileage in attacking the establishment?.. the changes they brought in last year to the SP system have allowed this to happen, it’s greed that’s driving this.
If we, the supposed better informed punters don’t say anyting while the sport is slowly ruined, then who will ?
The journalists who don’t say anything are the ones who should be worrying, after all it’s their jobs that will be on the line, not ours.
It’s enough to make you want to start a career as an each way thief and do them some proper damage.
Sorry guys for being a bit stupid with this following question.
As you are aware, I am in the main a placepot guy and therefore prices don’t matter to me much. I have the occassional single and multiple bets bet I don’t really worry too much about the prices, if I think it will win then any price is good enought for me – foolish I know.
Anyway, my question is – what does 130% over round actually mean to the bookmaker? I ask this question with a view to a follow up question but I will await the answer first.
Does it mean that realistically, all being equal, for every £130 the bookie pays out, he will have taken £100 in bets, therefore making £30 profit on every £100. Or is it more complicated than that?
Cheers in advance.
Mike
Mikky – you’re nearly there my son, but if for every £130 he paid out he had taken £100 in bets it would be a LOSS of £30 he was making, not a profit. You never did get that GCSE Maths did you mate?
The overround are the sum of all of the prices of each horse expressed as a percentage. For example, 2/1 means the horse has 2 chances of losing and one chance of winning out of a total of 3 chances.
1 / 3 = .33 or 33%
You do this for every runner in the race and add them together. On betfair the overround is 100%, that means that every runner is priced to it’s actual chance of winning (not exactly true). A poor book is greater than 1.4% per runner, that is the sum of the prices divided by the number of runners in a race
I know your next question is going to be something along the lines of .. ‘well if I back the winner how is that bad for me, or something .. ‘
It’s all about getting value for your gambling pound, if the bookie artificially compresses the prices then you might only get 4/1 about your 5/1 winner, instead of the 5/1 you are entitled to. This is compunded further by multiple betting because the negative edge is multiplied by itself. So when his 5/1 double comes in once a year he only collects 24/1 instead of the 35/1 he should get.
I think the Tote takes out 17% of the pool in the placepot, would you be worried about the pools shrinking if they started taking out 30%, when people realised that they weren’t getting a fair deal ?
Mikky – you’re nearly there my son, but if for every £130 he paid out he had taken £100 in bets it would be a LOSS of £30 he was making, not a profit. You never did get that GCSE Maths did you mate?
And guess what, I wrote it the other way round, then edited it – I spent 10 minutes thinking about it and I still got it wrong. I’ve mentioned it before, I am no good until I have had my coffee lol.
Feel a right fool now
Anyway, my next question was, that if 130% over round means a bookie makes a £30 profit on every £100 he takes, then is this really a bad thing. OK, again this might be a stupid comparison, but at the end of the day the bookmaker is a business and has to make his living – and when you compare his 30% profit to a loan shark, who will lend you £100 and ask for at least £150 back, then is 130% over round really bad.
Oh I wish I never got into this debate, you are all going to shoot me down aren’t you. Be gentle
Mike
Hi DaveJay,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I should have mentioned that I know how an over round is made up, I just didn’t know what 130% meant to the actual bookmaker, but I thank you for taking the time to write what you did. And as you can see, my next question is above – but probably a bit pointless and stupid lol.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike
Overrounds don’t guarantee any profit whatsoever. Imagine if someone bet 4-6 heads, 11-10 tails on a fair coin toss. There is an overround there, but any bookmaker offering those prices long term would lose money.
On horseracing, bookmakers would make far less than 30% profit even if they bet to 130% overrounds.
Clivex
Your calling horse racing high margin????
You should listen to or read some of Barney Curleys arguments before you dimiss them as "irrelevant" or "ridiculous" in the context of whats being discussed on this thread.
Not the slighest bit interested in the comments of someone who laughably describes himself as a punters pal and at the same time triggers contempt and dislike from the same
Dont you think that a relatively new punter say, with an interest in racing, is going to feel like sticking with the game when confronted with one of Barney’s "strokes"?
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