- This topic has 463 replies, 103 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Kauto Star was far from all out to beat Ashley Brook in last year’s race. He has the race sewn up going to the last and either got tired or idled. Eitrher way the bare margin doesn’t reflect his superiority over the runner-up.
What makes me laugh is when I read from the same people that were questioning his ability to stay 3m are also now saying he needs further than 2m.
"We won’t be thinking about Tingle Creek Chases from now on. It’s Kempton next for the King George and then the Gold Cup"
A quote from the trainer after Betfair chase.
He has the race sewn up going to the last and either got tired or idled. Eitrher way the bare margin doesn’t reflect his superiority over the runner-up.
If the horse got tired (and it wasnt his seasonal debut) then it was a fair reflection of his superiority.
Over 2 miles I think he is very good….over 3 miles I think he is exceptional. His two mile form is some way below his 2m4f plus form.
VPU is now bet of the season for me. I haven’t seen a better jumper in years, and he will have much too much speed for KS after the last.
Alan King is hardly downbeat about his wellbeing either. Fantastic each-way bet, if you have any doubt..
Clive,
I have watched the race, despite your suggestion I have not. What you have omitted from your little cherry picked piece below, was jumping the second last he was not fluent and definitely stumpled over the last. Ashley Brook finished two lengths behind him, so KS may have quickened away but certainly didn’t win in a hack canter.
Was his technique so good in Cheltenham in the CC when he fell, don’t think so. Only when I see KS win a championship race on good ground, going lickity spit will I believe the hype.
JohnJ.<br>
Aiden
If you think Kauto Star is only a length and a half better than Ashleybrook and nine and a half lengths better than Oneway at 2 miles then you’re welcome to that. I would strongly disagree.
Quote: from johnjdonoghue on 12:31 pm on Nov. 28, 2006[br]Fair play to Nicholls is all I can say. I still don’t believe that KS is that fluent over his obstacles, and over 2m this will be exposed.<br>
Exactly. KS is a better jumper over longer distances and is nowhere near as fluent as VPU over 2m.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Foreman was following VPU home rather than KS.
was jumping the second last he was not fluent and definitely stumpled over the last.
Whatever "stumpled" means. He was all of five years old in this race last year on ground that was pretty testing. You questioned his technique. For most of the race he jumped well and the actual technique was tested. Tiring at the last two is a different matter
Ok so he fell at Cheltenham. So did Moscow flyer….
I think hes up against it with VPU in the field, but if any two mile race will suit him, soft at Sandown will be the one
DJ
Over the Haldon Gold Cup trip Ashley Brook is exactly the same horse as Kauto Star. If he hadn’t been carrying an injury in the Tingle Creek he may well have beaten Kauto Star.
I think you have a unhealthy regard for Kauto Star. He isn’t the best horse any of us have ever seen. He doesn’t need further than 2m, he is very functional at the trip (having won a Grade 1), but he is better at 2m4f and up. He will be vulnerable on Saturday with VoyPor and Ashley and Foreman in the field.
Any comments about ‘an easy school round’ might look terrifyingly naive…
Clivex,
Stumbled means he wasn’t fluent, which is the point I am making. Moscow Flyer did fall, but he also won two Queen Mother’s on good ground at a fast pace, KS has not achieved this yet, so comparing him to MF is ridiculous…..
JohnJ.
Lincoln Duncan
The Haldon Gold Cup is not run over the same trip as the Tingle Creek. Also look at Ashleybrook’s first time out record and see how strong he was in the market that day and compare it with Kauto Star’s build up.
Maybe I do have an ‘unheallthy’ regard for Kauto Star, but I had the same regard for Azertyiop and Well Chief after they had put up outstanding (I’ve chosen that word carefully) performances under top weight in handicaps.
Regarding Voy Por Ustedes, I’d suggest his supporters that are bracketing him in the same class as Kauto Star have a look at his record last season. With the 4yo allowance to aid him, he was the best horse at the weights in just 2 of his races last season, when winning a novice at Plumpton and a 4yo event at Warwick. Not saying he won’t do better because he’s almost sure to but he has to improve stones not pounds to beat Kauto Star.
DJ, with respect, don’t 4 year olds get an allowance as they’re not as developed as 5 year olds +? It’s meant to create an even playing field, not to require 4 year olds to win by more than 5/6 lengths to prove they were the true best horse in the race.
Apoligies in advance if I’m wrong.
Now, whether that allowance is fair is a whole different topic.
<br>Enjoy yourself Clivex, I think Moscow Flyer is going to be parading as well so that will be an extra treat for you;)
Good point DJ.
VPU is certainly an exciting prospect but he’s acheived very little so far. Admittedly the Arkle was a hot renewal this year but only 2 horses got into the race and 95% of the field looked more like Gold Cup types than embryo 2-milers.
I really applaud PN & connections for running KS:cool:
DJ
When KS turns in a magnificent effort in defeat/victory in a top-class handicap such as the Victor Chandler, then I’ll develop a similar regard for KS.
As he only beat shambling inadequates in a second-rate handicap at Aintree, I’ll reserve judgement as to his weight-conceding abilities. You haven’t illustrated that very well.
I know the Tingle Creek isn’t run over the Haldon Gold Cup trip. Kauto’s first-time-out record isn’t half bad either, and he was getting plenty weight at Exeter.
The only question about the race is whether Kauto Star can reproduce this year’s form back at 2m in a race considered as an afterthought. If he can then there isn’t a horse that is within a stone and a half of him. If he runs I’ll honestly be surprised if he doesn’t win in a similar fashion as to on his first 2 starts this year.
The only question about the race is whether Kauto Star can reproduce this year’s form back at 2m in a race considered as an afterthought
Absolutely no one is doubting that is true. What is doubtful is weither he can produce the same type of performance because over two miles he has looked good without being exceptional.
It’s a very big question, as he’s been rated on his 3m form. He is unquestionably not a 176 horse on his 2m form.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.