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If he can’t make Cheltenham, I think the race known by many as the ‘Whitbread’ would be a solid alternative. Would love to see him fly around Sandown one final time, with the potential of producing a great weight carrying effort. He would stay three miles-five on his head on good ground and he’s often been knocked for never competing in handicaps.
I agree to the principal of trying him in a handicap, but think the ‘Whitbread’ would be the worst race imaginable for Kauto Star before retirement. In the past few years, a shockingly high percentage of participants in that race have sustained tendon injuries or broken down on the usual lightning-fast ground (Hot Weld, Lacdoudal, Iris De Balme, Racing Demon, Poker De Sivola, Baby Run, Triggerman, Kilcrea Castle, Hennessy, Reveillez, My Will…)
If I owned a decent horse, let alone a legendary one, I would keep them as far from Sandown on the last day of the season as possible.
Come on Tuffers, this is the most famous quality steeplechaser (leaving out Red Rum) in the past 50 years, 2nd fav for the most prestigious jump race of the season (£800k + already matched on Betfair alone). It’s not any horse in any yard.
As I’ve already pointed out, the only possible effect of mentioning the incident would have been for KS to drift in the betting market. Why do you think it appropriate for PN to make a statement (in the certain knowledge that it will have this effect) before he knows whether it will have any effect on the horse’s participation or chances? For you to argue that ‘the betting public’ can make their own mind up based on the ‘facts’ is absurd. How could anyone possibly have drawn a conclusion and then acted (in terms of placing a bet) on the mere ‘fact’ of the fall having taken place before there was any veterinary opinion about the effects suffered by the horse?
Who cares about anything except the horse’s well fair? If you are that reliant on a 12 year old to win the gold cup for your betting health then could I suggest you should be looking to GA rather than theracingforum. Nicholls and Smith have done exactly what they are entitled to do with knowledge about their horse, fair play to the yard for keeping so quiet. Hope the ‘innocents’ will now appreciate that PN keeps a fair bit back for himself as does Andy (how did he make his money after all?) Stewart et al. The mugs are the those who think he gives everything away in his ‘honest’, ‘straight’ etc missives on Betfair and formerly the RP. Hope KS is OK, and most importantly the right thing is done by the horse who owes no one, and certainly not Smith, a penny. Gwan Kauto!!
I would take the horse into retirement immediately.People stumble and fall from old age. Why wait till the next old age incident?
Kauto Star is a horse Andyod. If it is not ok for Kauto Star to race on at 12 years old, then it shouldn’t be ok for any horse to do so. No gelding’s life should be worth any more than the next gelding.
Value Is EverythingThey used to say that the horse will tell you when he is ready to retire.I believe Kato is telling us now.When he makes such a mistake in his own back yard he is writing on the wall.Loud and clear.Pardon the mixed metaphor.
The myth that a sponsored column – be it with the Racing Post or Betfair – was ever anything more than an attempt at positive PR for P F Nicholls should be over.
When you decide to publish such information in this style in your name, you can’t tell the truth some of the time.
An end to these ridiculous columns would be most welcome. They serve absolutely no purpose.
"I was delighted with them all" was clearly a lie. Whether the public have a right to information is another matter, but misinforming people reaps its own rewards.
It was my assertion that Gold Cup was the wrong race and possibly Cheltenham the wrong venue for the horse. Judging by the press releases yesterday they now have put themselves in an impossible situation for the horse’s participation at the festival. If he runs and gets injured or worse, they will be vilified. The horse has been on the go a long time this season and the likelihood of a 12yo holding his form, especially at the top level, for the duration of the season must be remote. I’m sure connexions are no more or no less attached than any other horse they have had in training for so long, but the service any horse gives does entitle them to a fair consideration when continuing to race is no longer in the best interests of the horse in question.
PN has put some flesh on the bones of the earlier statement which makes it clear why there was no reason to ‘announce’ the schooling fall earlier:
"He’s been sound ever since – he cantered on Saturday and he’s cantered every day since,"
"It was only when I got back from Cheltenham Media Day on Wednesday evening that Clifford (Baker) my head lad, who rides him every day, said: ‘he’s going okay but it’s 50-50 in my opinion, he might not get Cheltenham’ so I rang Clive (Smith) and said I thought we needed to tell everybody the situation we were in. That’s why we did it. We’re just hopeful."
"He’s having physio already this morning. He’s going to canter as normal today. We’re hoping we can get him there. There’s just a chance that we might not be able to get him there so we thought we’d better let people know."
"It’s very minor, he’s just a little stiff. It’s like anything, as you get a bit older and you take a little knock, it takes longer to get over it. If you paraded him out here now, no-one would know anything was wrong with him. It’s just a feel Clifford gets riding him. It’s very minor and it’s getting better every day.
"We’re still hopeful, we’ve still got a fortnight. He needs to be at his very very best to run in the race. That’s what we need to get him at. There’s just a chance he might not."
"The first time he’s ever fallen schooling at home. He got up straight away, walked back. On the Saturday he cantered as normal. We were thinking he was going to be absolutely fine.
"It was only really Wednesday evening that Clifford said to me there was a chance, it’s 50-50 – he might not get there."
"He’s been in seriously good order. It’s not a foregone conclusion, with bruising like this it changes daily. There’s still a great chance. The big day will be a week Saturday when he does his last strong bit of work before the Gold Cup. He needs to thrill Clifford and Clifford to say he’s right back to normal.
"Having had a fall he’s got to have a school. He was just following his normal procedure. Three weeks before a race he’s always had a school. He would have had another a week before. He will definitely have another school."
I have always believed that the idea that Paul Nicholls is approachable and open with the public is seriously overblown. To me everything appears stage managed and you get the impression one comment out of turn and he could easily put Vesuvius to shame.
Whatever your views I find it hard to believe how anyone can suggest his comments last Friday were anything other than pathetic.
Ruby was here on Friday morning to school some of our big guns. He schooled Kauto Star, Big Buck’s, Al Ferof and Join Together to name but four and I was delighted with them all.
PFN, Saturday column
Very poor from a man who seldom blunders on the PR front
Poor, poor effort on the PR front from the normally sure-footed Nicholls.
What on earth was wrong with saying, last weekend, "Kauto had a fall when schooling. He appears sound but obviously we’ll need to monitor him closely and we’ll issue updates as further information on his well-being comes to light"
Regarding the mis- or non-information regarding the fall in Nicholls’ Saturday missives: he could perhaps be forgiven this due to deadlines imposed on Friday for submitting copy for Saturday. It’s not the first time – in this or any other sphere – that copy submitted overnight for publication next day has been rendered obsolete by new developments
Still, notwithstanding that, a quick phone call to the sub-editors later on Friday requesting that one clause in the copy be replaced by another viz ‘Kauto took a heavy fall’ for ‘delighted with them all’ doesn’t strike me as being an insurmountable problem
Whatever your views I find it hard to believe how anyone can suggest his comments last Friday were anything other than pathetic.
Obviously this is speculation but I read what happened last Friday like this.
Kauto schools and falls. He hasn’t done it before but these things happen and he gets straight up afterwards and there’s no reason to think anything is amiss.
Unfortunately, the owner is present to witness the fall and is quite upset (maybe thinking it’s a sign of age catching up with him). Owner and stable lad fret about it and stable lad tells Nicholls on Wednesday (by the sound of it to his great surprise) that KS is only 50/50 to make it to Cheltenham. PN is then put in a difficult position as he feels obliged to report this to the owner who frets even more. They then decide they also need to go public on stable lad’s ‘gut feeling’
I think it’s evident from what has been said by Clive Smith and PN that the former is having major doubts about running the horse whereas the latter hasn’t ever really thought it a big deal.
Speaking as an owner who has recently lost a horse on the track, I can completely understand Clive Smith worrying and if he was mine (admittedly against the backdrop of my recent experience) I wouldn’t run the horse.
Maybe the fall was a sign – it would be a brave owner who witnessed something like that and ignored it. If KS was to get hurt in the Gold Cup I’m sure CS would never forgive himself.
Dear Oh Dear Oh Dear,Poor,No its very Poor,No in fact its worse than that,Its not acceptable! ‘Kauto’ takes a nasty tumble LAST Friday,yards from his owner Clive Smith who admits it looked nasty…..a week later,then admits a statement ‘should’ have been made earlier!
Er damn right it should.I’m not pocket talkin here because i’ve never backed the horse but I still wanted him to turn up,its called sportsmanship and appreciating a Legend,that i took so long to realise was one! Why wasn’t a statement issued immediatley saying ‘Kauto falls Schooling’ No big deal but at least it paints a picture of ‘Possibility’ that alls not well.It clearly isn’t well and i for one wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole even if he does turn up because a pound to a penny the excuse for getting beat is sitting there in the top drawer now! POOR POOR PR! It leaves a Sour taste,no a bitter taste! Whatever your views I find it hard to believe how anyone can suggest his comments last Friday were anything other than pathetic.
Obviously this is speculation but I read what happened last Friday like this.
Kauto schools and falls. He hasn’t done it before but these things happen and he gets straight up afterwards and there’s no reason to think anything is amiss.
Unfortunately, the owner is present to witness the fall and is quite upset (maybe thinking it’s a sign of age catching up with him). Owner and stable lad fret about it and stable lad tells Nicholls on Wednesday (by the sound of it to his great surprise) that KS is only 50/50 to make it to Cheltenham. PN is then put in a difficult position as he feels obliged to report this to the owner who frets even more. They then decide they also need to go public on stable lad’s ‘gut feeling’
I think it’s evident from what has been said by Clive Smith and PN that the former is having major doubts about running the horse whereas the latter hasn’t ever really thought it a big deal.
Speaking as an owner who has recently lost a horse on the track, I can completely understand Clive Smith worrying and if he was mine (admittedly against the backdrop of my recent experience) I wouldn’t run the horse.
Maybe the fall was a sign – it would be a brave owner who witnessed something like that and ignored it. If KS was to get hurt in the Gold Cup I’m sure CS would never forgive himself.
Is the ‘stable Lad’ to whom you are referring Clifford Baker? That would be the head lad who rides Kauto every day and would have a good deal more idea as to the horses well being than anyone and certainly more than Clive Smith or Nicholls. Stable lad, honestly. ‘Gut feeling’? Have you ever sat on a horse?
Is the ‘stable Lad’ to whom you are referring Clifford Baker? That would be the head lad who rides Kauto every day and would have a good deal more idea as to the horses well being than anyone and certainly more than Clive Smith or Nicholls. Stable lad, honestly. ‘Gut feeling’? Have you ever sat on a horse?
It is indeed. I’ve no doubt that the high regard in which Clifford Baker is held is the reason why PN immediately discussed it with the owner.
I’m not sure why you consider the term ‘stable lad’ in some way pejorative or disrespectful – it’s a job description. And I would have thought ‘gut feeling’ is something to be respected in a horseman. As PN said, you wouldn’t think there was anything wrong with the horse to look at him but Clifford Baker said he didn’t ‘feel’ right.
Come on Tuffers, this is the most famous quality steeplechaser (leaving out Red Rum) in the past 50 years, 2nd fav for the most prestigious jump race of the season (£800k + already matched on Betfair alone). It’s not any horse in any yard.
As I’ve already pointed out, the only possible effect of mentioning the incident would have been for KS to drift in the betting market. Why do you think it appropriate for PN to make a statement (in the certain knowledge that it will have this effect) before he knows whether it will have any effect on the horse’s participation or chances?
Erm, because it’s the truth? It takes a minute to write and goes something like this: "Kauto Star had a pretty awful fall while schooling today. Until we are able to interpret the full effects, if any, of the fall, over the coming days, we will not know if his potential participation in the Gold Cup will be affected. We will keep you updated as we learn more"
For you to argue that ‘the betting public’ can make their own mind up based on the ‘facts’ is absurd. How could anyone possibly have drawn a conclusion and then acted (in terms of placing a bet) on the mere ‘fact’ of the fall having taken place before there was any veterinary opinion about the effects suffered by the horse?
Whatever your subsequent decision bet-wise, would you (objectively, as a punter) rather have had the above statement or something similar last Saturday than what we have been left with?
To repeat, as I seem to have to ad nauseam these days,
I have not backed the horse: if he misses it that will be of considerable advantage to me.
If only my personal interests mattered, I’d be posting nothing and rubbing my hands. But racing and its image matter to me and I think the episode was badly handled by Ditcheat connections.
Some posters here and on twitter seem to think you need to be in an either/or camp – you care for the horse or you care for the public. It’s perfectly simple to do both at once.
Is the ‘stable Lad’ to whom you are referring Clifford Baker? That would be the head lad who rides Kauto every day and would have a good deal more idea as to the horses well being than anyone and certainly more than Clive Smith or Nicholls. Stable lad, honestly. ‘Gut feeling’? Have you ever sat on a horse?
It is indeed. I’ve no doubt that the high regard in which Clifford Baker is held is the reason why PN immediately discussed it with the owner.
I’m not sure why you consider the term ‘stable lad’ in some way pejorative or disrespectful – it’s a job description. And I would have thought ‘gut feeling’ is something to be respected in a horseman. As PN said, you wouldn’t think there was anything wrong with the horse to look at him but Clifford Baker said he didn’t ‘feel’ right.
Something he can say because he rides the horse and therefore knows more about KS than anybody and that includes Nicholls. Quite frankly, without Clifford Baker, the Ditcheat operation would be half what it is. He is the best head lad in the sport. And yes I do think your use of the term stable lad is pejorative to a man as good at his job as Clifford Baker, would you call a surgeon a nurse? I also think it indicates that you think the man’s opinion warrants less respect than Clive Smith’s. It is indicative of Clifford Baker’s professionalism that not a word of the fall leaked out of the yard in a week!!!! Almost unheard of in racing outside of Ballydoyle. If Clifford Baker says the horse is not fit to run in the Gold Cup, the horse will not run; PN would not risk upsetting the single most important person inside the yard.
Er damn right it should.I’m not pocket talkin here because i’ve never backed the horse but I still wanted him to turn up,its called sportsmanship and appreciating a Legend,that i took so long to realise was one! 
Why wasn’t a statement issued immediatley saying ‘Kauto falls Schooling’ No big deal but at least it paints a picture of ‘Possibility’ that alls not well.It clearly isn’t well and i for one wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole even if he does turn up because a pound to a penny the excuse for getting beat is sitting there in the top drawer now! POOR POOR PR! It leaves a Sour taste,no a bitter taste! 
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