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Disappointing race as the expected battle between DOM & NA never happened. NA did himself no favours pulling early on and never showed a turn of foot, just staying on to get third. The ground may not have been ideal and he may have needed the run but hard to see him reversing the form in the Irish Champion Stakes.
At the mo for me DOM after 5 straight GR1 wins is the best middle distance horse in Europe and I don’t think he has anything to prove. Not sure what is going on with Soldier of Fortune but I assume he will also oppose DOM in the Irish Champion Stakes.
Soldier Of Fortune may keep to the Prix Foy as I quietly wonder if Henrythenavigator will still be in line for an Irish Champion tilt?
I always believe that your heart should never rule your head – I wish it had on this occasion!!
I’m a huge fan of The Duke, but my head told me that New Approach would win. I was wrong, but not disappointed!
I made the comment prior to the race that The Duke was the best in the country and arguably Europe. I was wrong – he is the best horse in Europe. No contest.
Zarkava, good filly, but you’re living in cloud-cuckoo-land if you think she’s achieved more than The Duke.
She could prove the better animal, but status is based on achievement and The Duke is now arguably the best turf horse in the world.
It won’t happen, but a return to eight furlongs wouldn’t pose a problem for him, either.
If Aiden O’Brien is reading this (!!). SEND THE DUKE TO THE BREEDERS’ CUP CLASSIC. HENRYTHENAVIGATOR IS THE BEST MILER IN EUROPE AT THE MOMENT, BUT HE’S NOT ROBUST ENOUGH TO WIN THE RACE – GEORGE WASHINGTON PROVED THAT YOU NEED MORE THAN SPEED AND CLASS TO WIN THE RACE. SEND FLAT RACINGS VERSION OF THE TANK AND HE’LL PROVE HIMSELF THE BEST ON THE PLANET. YOU’VE NEVER HAD A BETTER PROSPECT.
Five runs, five wins, five Group Ones. Horse of the Year. Game Over.
Agree.
If Henry goes for the Turf Mile he will win easily
Duke for the Classic or maybe the Turf 1m4f.
Soldier for the 1m4f Turf or Dirt.
Such a stronghold on the major Group 1, what a trainer.
Fist
It’s more than a few pressmen who rate Dom as the best turf horse in the world:
http://www.horseracingintfed.com/resources/2008Rankings/7_30_08_WLH_PressRelease.asp
But what would they know?
You’re not trying to be a tiny bit sarcasrtic mate are you?.
You ask what would they know? Well as much as you do by the looks of things
. Do you rate Papa Bull is a better horse than Henrythenavigator? Damned if I do.Henry won the Coventry, The English and Irish 2000 Guineas, The St James Palace and the Sussex. Four Group one races and the form has just been franked by Raven’s Pass a very good horse and they claim Papa Bull is a better animal. Absolute Poppycock!!!!!!!
Papa Bull hasn’t won a single group 1 race but according to that bunch of experts he is rated 2 points higher the Henry
Would you back Youmzain 10/1 to beat Zarkava 3/1 in the Arc? Go ahead and be my guest. If she is as good as the French horse I’m a Dutchman
There’s a huge difference between taking on a bunch of ordinary animals and a Derby winner who blew every chance he had and taking on a horse like Zarkava or Curlin. DOM has yet to do and vice versa of course.
These guys take a horse like DOM stick him up on a pedastal and overrate him. Then when some ordinary animal like Papa Bull runs a big race they have no choice but bump him up and it makes a mockery of racing.
Dare I mention Master Minded who due to the fact they overrated the 2nd in the QMCC we got a situation where Master Minded after 2 races was rated higher than Denman winner of something like 14 races on the trot.
I stand by what I said and I can’t wait until Arc day when Zarkava wins by half a dozen lengths from the best of the older horses in Europe………I reckon it will have the raters running around scratching their brains and thinking WTF do we do now.
Agree with you regarding Papal Bull Fist.
This years King George was a poor one (I know they said that last year) but this years was. Youmzain ran no race at all and the rest would struggle to win a Group 3.
Papal Bull at his very, very best is smart but he’s not one of the best in Europe in a zillion years he’s a horse capable of winning a Group 2 but that is it. To suggest he’s a better horse than Henrythenavigator is a bit insane really isn’t it?
I wouldn’t consider The Duke to be overrated.
He’s unbeaten in five starts in five Group Ones this season. This has been achieved in three different countries, on different ground, over a variety of trips.
Even his 3YO form was impressive considering the problem he had. He finished fourth in two Guineas before running Ramonti, arguably the best miler in the world at the time, to 1L in the QEII. A close second to horse of the year-elect, Dylan Thomas, in the Irish Champion was also an impressive effort.
Imagine what he would have achieved without the problem.
We’re seeing the real Duke this year and it will take a very special horse with a very big heart to beat him. Could Zarkava be that horse? Maybe, but I’m not convinced.
Only Curlin, on his favoured surface, over his optimum trip in a Breeders’ Cup Classic, could lower his colours.
I completely agree with Fist about the ratings. Never been a fan of them myself.
I was also very dubious of Master Minded’s rating. A rating the horse could very well achieve / deserve in the future, but after just a handful of starts over fences and one scintillating performance. Never.
It’s like Hawk Wing and the Lockinge all over again…
I prefer to trust my judgment rather than a calculator.
Guys, I’m not sure if you’re missing something here regarding the Arc but DOM has been taken out of almost all of the betting for the Arc.
Looks like SOF and FF are definates from AOB for the Arc now
Having backed Zarkava The Duke not running is music to my ears. Would be great to see them clash in the Arc but I think even Aiden O’Brien realizes this is a very exceptional filly so why take the risk?
If the Duke can fire in another couple of Group 1’s and make it 6 or 7 on the trot his stud value will rocket. If Zarkava defeated him his value would overall become much less.
That’s my reckoning anyway. It certainly won’t make a lot of difference to SOF if he loses but would boost his value if by some miracle he won the Arc so they have nothing to lose.
However I get a bigger buzz thinking about Zarkava than I do DOM. XMAS has been brought forward to October IMO and I can’t wait to see her run
Fist and Hard
both of you
should run a mile and a half
in socks
laden with form books
as half a horse
to expose the bullThere is no doubt in my mind
that the Bull did not puncture
but gored the marmalade machine
and it’s no wonder
the arched eyebrow
has decided no arc.
I heard it on the mobile
‘that little bee bull has damaged me more’
words to that effect
trust meI am not a Papal Bull fan, he is a "dog", only putting it all in when he wants to. That is not very often. Has to be held up until the last possible moment as he idles badly in front. A very difficult ride. Before the King George I would not have said he was a genuine Group 1 animal either, his record, although progressive did not add up to that standard. However, there can be no argueing about the Ascot form. He came clear with The Duke of a good field and must be rated on that effort. Even though we can say temperament will seldom allow him to run to that form again.
I have been a fan of The Duke since seeing him paddock side in the Champagne at Goodwood. Did not show how good he is last year due to pre season injury and his build meant he was not going to hit peak form until an older horse anyway. DOM is never going to be rated a "Great" like Mill Reef or Ribot as he never wins by far. Why do we have to judge like that? Probably is not that good but probably better than his "form" has suggested too. Always just doing enough so is never going to be rated much higher than those he beats. In my opinion did not need to be at his best to win on Saturday. Judged on Pipedreamer’s form Phoenix Tower probably improved a few pounds.
Zarkava on the other hand has beaten all that she’s been up against with ease. But that has been her own sex and probably a substandard bunch of fillies at that. So with her it is impossible to say with any certainty she "is the best around" until she races against the older colts.
New Approach (IMO) would have run out of petrol if allowed his head early on over 1m2f. Particularly when there is a pacemaker to take him on too. Why try anything different when hold up tactics worked in the Derby? I don’t rate Manning much (too whip happy) but can’t see what he did wrong there. It was different to the two Guineas, settled well when allowed a soft lead. Again impossible to say if the injury or ground made any difference, but he does have a ready excuse. Would he have beaten DOM at his best? IMO in that ground no.
Too early to get in to the Master Minded debate.
Mark
Value Is EverythingWell done to DOM, he is very gutsy and classy.
A deadly combination.
I wonder how many tough races he can take…
Zip
Nice to see James Willoughby also comment on how Pipedreamer would suit a strongly run mile today.
Anyone else feel this would be worthwhile for J.Gosden to try?
Zarkava on the other hand has beaten all that she’s been up against with ease. But that has been her own sex and probably a substandard bunch of fillies at that.
On what do you base that statement, Mark?
Thouraghly agree about DoM going for the Classic. Think he would be perfectly suited for it instead of Henry. He has the speed of a miler and the stamina for 1m4f….surely the perfect combo???
What if the Duke was trained by, lets see, say Henry Cecil and had won 5 group ones for Henry in one year, would he still be looked on as no big deal?
Would Henry be toasted to the skies? Now what if the same year and also for Henry, a 3yo had won 4 group 1’s to go with the Duke’s 5 would we be toasting Henry as some kind of super trainer?Zarkava on the other hand has beaten all that she’s been up against with ease. But that has been her own sex and probably a substandard bunch of fillies at that.
On what do you base that statement, Mark?
I guess you are questioning it Gus due to the form "working out well" with some of those beaten well going on to win group races.
I just feel the other mile / 10f fillies are no great shakes. Nahoodh, Natagora etc. seem average winners of their races at best. Zarkava is a very good filly but we will not know just how good until she meets the colts, when she can be tested. Don’t get me wrong I am a fan of hers, she might be as good as Allez France, but we do not know that yet.
Mark
Value Is Everything
. Do you rate Papa Bull is a better horse than Henrythenavigator? Damned if I do.
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