John Gosden On Ardad

[admin]

Is your point Nathan that you feel the horse has simply been poorly campaigned? They’ve made a mess of that aspect?

[Nathan Hughes]

I’ve tried explaining my points on the ‘Another Fine Mess’ thread
Perhaps I’m not explaining them properly.
The nail in Charlton’s coffin was him saying Time Test probably would have won the POW if he had run in it.
He didn’t.
My belief is running the horse on soft in the Eclipse and then again a gallop short for the Skybet meant the horse had two hard races and that may have had a contribution to Time Test not working well and therefore not taking his chance in the International.

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[Gingertipster]

Nathan Hughes wrote:

I’m not saying that ginge.
They were not running Time Test on soft prior to the Eclipse, you said they were running out of options as a reason to the running there yet they still had the International to wait for as before the Eclipse they did not know the horse would not be right at that moment in time.

I’ve already covered this in the other thread but will try again:
Connections had already taken Time Test out of two races -Tatts Gold Cup and Prince Of Wales – so they can’t just keep the horse in his box for the whole season. They want to race. Now (and this is important) had there been another Group 1 alternative 1m2f target close to hand they might have run in that instead – but there wasn’t.

As you rightly say, the next Group 1 mile and a quarter target was the Juddmonte International – a full 46 days away from the Eclipse. Yes, they could have “wait”ed for the International without running in the Eclipse, but what’s the point when there’s 46 days between the two races anyway? Plenty of recovery time even if he’d had a hard race (which in the event he did not have because the Eclipse was run at a fairly slow pace). They had nothing to lose from running in the Eclipse, therefore I for one can not blame them for doing so even if on ground they believed did not suit.

Value Is Everything

[Gingertipster]

Nathan Hughes wrote:

I’ve tried explaining my points on the ‘Another Fine Mess’ thread
Perhaps I’m not explaining them properly.
The nail in Charlton’s coffin was him saying Time Test probably would have won the POW if he had run in it.
He didn’t.
My belief is running the horse on soft in the Eclipse and then again a gallop short for the Skybet meant the horse had two hard races and that may have had a contribution to Time Test not working well and therefore not taking his chance in the International.

Covered this too:
Charlton is no form expert. He sees that My Dream Boat had won the Prince Of Wales and then finished BEHIND Time Test in the Eclipse on soft… And deduces from that “Time Test probably would have won the POW if he had run in it” despite the soft ground. You and I know MDB wasn’t in the same form at Sandown, Roger doesn’t.

“A gallop short” does not mean a horse is absolutely unfit. It means the trainer believes he may not be absolutely at his very best. Had the form not worked out and suggested Time Test well below form you might have a point. Because although Mondialiste was a Group 1 winner he hadn’t shown that form this season. However, result of the Skybet (Mondialiste going on to Group 1 victory next time) goes some way to proving Time Test not far below his best (if at all).

Time Test reportedly came out of the Skybet initially in good shape, before later working poorly. But you seem to know differently Nathan.

With punters latching on to what’s said, putting 2 and 2 together and making 22, who can blame trainers if choosing to say as little as possible?

Value Is Everything

[Nathan Hughes]

You can cover it as much as you like ginge, That’s your choice
My response was to admin’s question

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[Gingertipster]

Yes, and my point is that despite me giving you a lengthy logical explanation to everything you’ve questioned, you still see it as a “mess of the year contender“. Don’t expect you to agree with everything I’ve said about the horse/trainer/connections Nathan, far from it. Did not expect you to agree with Time Test’s running arrangements. Did expect you to understand a bit more about why those decisions were made.

Anyway, that’s all from me. You’re a lost cause. I give up. :lol:

I know, I know, you all say “thank … for that”!
I do try and explain things.
Or should that just be I’m trying?

Value Is Everything

[Nathan Hughes]

If Charlton really believes that Time Test probably would have won the POW then he, deep down must be kicking himself just a little bit, don’t you think. To have even said it is a slight confession to wishing they had taken in the race. Of course that is with hindsight and would not have crossed his mind at the time of pulling the horse out.
I should of watered down my ‘attack’ on Charlton and have exaggerated things a degree or two but still believe it warranted a thread.

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[BigG]

Gingertipster wrote:

Anyway, that’s all from me.
I know, I know, you all say “thank … for that”!

Not all all Ginger, I had heard Warner Brothers were thinking of releasing
“Ginger V Nathan (The Charlton Saga)”, I was very much looking forward to it,
but I heard they were having problems cutting it to 4 hours

[Nathan Hughes]

Back on topic

Bruce Raymond

“Frankie was very much sheltered out of the wind (at Doncaster), that gave him a big advantage. Most of the horses were exposed to the wind.”

That was a brucie bonus

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[Nathan Hughes]

I’ve had a pound each way on Ardad…..
5f, soft going…… tick, tick
I’m not confident at all but 22/1 tempted me

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[Steeplechasing]

Am with you there, Nathan . :)

[Author]

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