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Can someone please explain the following to me and tell me what chance a punter as of studying the form when you are confronted with the following.
The going tomorrow at Newmarket is described as soft.
Ivawood won on the July course on going officially described by the Racing Post as good to frim ground
Richard Hughes is reported in the Sporting Life as follows
Hughes has no concerns about the ground on the Rowley Mile, and said: “He’s won on soft already at the July meeting so that’s not a worry.
What chance do we have and who do we beleive.
Utter madness.Some exaggerating and generalizing from Mr Hughes.
Jockeys often say won on soft when they mean on the soft side of good.
The going started good to firm good in places on that day and changed through the day, RP update the going as it is stated officially.
GOING: GOOD TO FIRM (Good in places) changing to GOOD after Race 3 (2.40) changing to GOOD TO SOFT after Race 4 (3.15). Weather conditions: rain.
STALLS: Stands’ side course: 1m 2f, 1m 4f & 1m 5f – Centre; Remainder – Far sideThe going was on the slow side of good as the day went on.
From the form of Ivawood as suplied by the Racing Post
Portland Place Properties July Stakes (Group 2) (Colts & Geldings)
(Class 1) (2yo) 6f July Good To Firm
Timeform had it Good to Firm for Ivawoods run at Newmarket.
On that day Timeform went good to firm, first 3 races, then good for the 3:15 then good to soft for the remainder.
They have him 10 lbs clear tomorrow, still has a "p" as well.
Hope this helps.
From the form of Ivawood as suplied by the Racing Post
Portland Place Properties July Stakes (Group 2) (Colts & Geldings)
(Class 1) (2yo) 6f July Good To Firm
Yes, but that was the 2nd race and the official description was not changed until after race 3 so to that point the ground was still being described as GF (g) officially.
I watched the entire build up to the July Stakes and the heavens opened before the race. They interviewed Richard Hughes just before the race and I posted the following on the Big Races section of the forum a couple of minutes later:-
The rain is coming down and it’s softening the ground. Hughsie has said Ivawood is one of Hannon’s best 2yos and should like the 6f but perhaps not soft ground.
Whether it was truly soft is debatable but it certainly wasn’t good to firm and I mentioned that on the 2yo thread earlier today.
The race
was
run in terrible conditions though and you can see that from the link to the video of the race here:-
http://racinguk.com/news/article/29008/ … akes-field
They are kicking the sods up pretty good and the ground must have been pretty loose on top as you can clearly see the marks left in the turf behind them.
I hope I’m wrong but I am not as confident about the horse as I was earlier in the year. To me he takes a bit of time to get away from them on the surface in the July Stakes and looked better in the Richmond, although the form is nowhere near as good as the earlier race regarding what he beat.
I won’t take him on but I won’t back him either tomorrow.
Hope this helps someone out.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Only Richard Hughes can get beat on a 1/2 chance in a 6 runner group 1….comes to the furlong marker and decides to take a pull near enough? He really thinks he’s something special trying to win by a nose every time…go on and win the race!!! He did it last week with Quick Jack….the only reason he is champion jockey is the amount of firepower the Hannon’s have, it has nothing to do with his skills as a horseman. He gets beat on horses that shouldn’t get beat more than any other jockey.
Nonsense.
Hughes was at him before the furlong marker and had his whip drawn at the furlong pole.
He has run on fair enough for a horse that looks to have stamina limitations and will be suited by better ground ultimately. Just watching their actions you can see Charming Thought looked much better suited to the conditions.
If he had gone for home sooner he would have been beaten sooner, he was all out at the line. All things considered, Ivawood has run fine, but we have learnt something about him today.
Defeat had nothing to do with the jockey today. I watched Ivawood in the July Stakes and he travelled really well before taking longer to get on top than looked likely from the way he had travelled.
Richard Hannon has just said he believes the ground stopped him from quickening away today but I believe he was just outstayed by the winner.
Graeme Cunningham and Richard Hannon both retain faith in the horse but this Middle Park is not a good Guineas trial and having backed Ivawood at 20/1 for the race I highly doubt he’ll win it and he travels like a sprinter to me.
As for today, I have said for a while now that I was having a bad feeling about the horse and he was an accident waiting to happen at 1/2 today. Another fav has just got gubbed in the Fillies Mile and O’Brien’s 3rd string has shown what a stranglehold he has on the classics.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
All fair points but he has only been beaten a nose and was going by far the best of the field. He should kick horses on earlier rather than holding onto them and win by the smallest margins…he’s been found wanting too many times for my liking. Maybe I’m being a bit harsh today, but it happens all too often, and rather than blame the horse, the jockey had something to do with it today. If they all had doubts, which apparently they did, then why not employ better tactics?
All fair points but he has only been beaten a nose and was going by far the best of the field. He should kick horses on earlier rather than holding onto them and win by the smallest margins…he’s been found wanting too many times for my liking. Maybe I’m being a bit harsh today, but it happens all too often, and rather than blame the horse, the jockey had something to do with it today. If they all had doubts, which apparently they did, then why not employ better tactics?
The trouble is that if you kick earlier, you use more of the horse’s energy and he’ll tire more quickly.
Soft ground affects horses in two ways, their physical ability to move at best effect
and
eats away their stamina. How much of each element has contributed to a less than peak performance is impossible to define and Richard Hannon clearly believes it is the former. I believe that Ivawood lost today because the winner finished better than him in the latter stages of the race and probably because he possesses more stamina.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Todays results on the flat only confirm that its going downhill rapidly,I have little confidence betting on it and in 30yrs of loving both codes I have to say I’m firmly in the Jumps camp these days……When TAPK says that then there’s a problem.
Have to agree TAPK-results today at Newmarket go against known form.
Pin sticker time
Come on the jumps.
Good performance by Court Minstrel today. Will be hard to beat whilst the going remains good.Nothing wrong with the ride given to Ivawood today. Got nosed off and had the rest of the field well beaten. For me the going prevented it kicking away from the field as in the past. You also wonder whether others are catching up with it physically. It was never value at the SP in that ground. The Fillies Mile and Dewhurst also produced shock results. Blame the schedulers for putting on "Future Champs day" on soft ground at the fag end of the season.
The Channel 4 boys were getting on my nerves today. All we heard about beforehand was how good a bet the favs were and all we heard about afterwards was how we shouldn’t lose faith in the horses as the ground was to blame.
We were all aware of the ground beforehand and Graeme Cunningham waxed on about how great Lucida’s form was and how he could understand why she was being well backed, when the reality is that punters who are having a bad day invariably believe that a fav is "due" to win and they batter in on it trying to get out.
Former Classic contender Berkshire summed up a bad day for favourite backers when bouncing back to something like it at 20/1 in the last in a race that saw Timeform tip out of form Cambridgeshire winner Educate, who has never won beyond handicap company.
What chance have the punters got if the experts are putting up a handicapper, who hasn’t won in more than a year, to achieve success at a level it has not managed in a 24 race career?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
You can get funny results on the flat in mid October especially with the ground changes. Ivawood ran well enough and is better on quicker going but probably not as good as some have hoped and not nearly as good as Canford Cliffs or Toronado. How they can compare Ivawood to Toronado is beyond me as Ivawood already is about the size of the beast and there is a two year age gap.
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Agreed, Nathan.
Ivawood ran fine, the more you watch it and butter it up he just simply ran fine but is less effective on softer ground.
I think Charming Thought has been a bit understated as well in fairness. Those behind the front pair have run up to scratch generally. CT tracked Ivawood through the race reasonably comfortably overall and had enough to quicken and gun him down.
RP has them running to 117,117, 113, 112, 109, 107 which seems fair enough.
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