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Is Willie Mullins’ domination boring?

Home Forums Horse Racing Is Willie Mullins’ domination boring?

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  • #1691288
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
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    • Total Posts 5780

    Also pricewise saying he underperformed at Cheltenham …. I bet he wishes he hadn’t said that ..

    #1691312
    moehat
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    • Total Posts 9152

    He’s got so many horses in training, does it mean that next season he’ll be bringing lots of them over here on a more regular basis in much the same way that Gordon Elliott has been doing up north? Is it easier/cheaper for Irish trainers to bring horses to the UK than it is for UK trainers to go there? I rather fear for our northern yards if he does; we’ve already lost the Dobbin yard.

    #1691317
    greenasgrass
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    • Total Posts 7364

    “Is it easier/cheaper for Irish trainers to bring horses to the UK than it is for UK trainers to go there? ”

    It’s about the same cost for animal health certs either way I think.

    Shark explains at 5:50 and 17:20 the difficulties bringing horses to GB.

    #1691631
    MissIsabella
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    • Total Posts 21

    Good old Willie will be saving me a lot of money 🤣🤣🤣 as he has finally killed any interest or affection I have left for racing.
    I will keep my money.If everyone does the same the levy will fall & the sport will die.

    Well done Willie!

    #1691647
    Avatar photobefair
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    • Total Posts 1975

    I’m old enough to remember Fred Winter and the Millionaire’s Row (Bula, Pendil, Crisp and Killiney) and Michael Dickinson’s first five home in the Bregawn’s Gold Cup. But I don’t remember any jealousy and resentment, only due respect for such wonderful trainers.
    Empires rise and fall….

    #1691649
    stilvi
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    • Total Posts 4934

    You forgot Lanzarote. Different game in those days when a stable consisted of 50 horses and the north was a major force.

    Be interested to know how much it costs to have a horse with Mullins as opposed to Skelton, Nicholls, and Henderson. You could also include O’Neill who mystifyingly gets sent loads of expensive horses and messes up on a regular basis.

    People soon forget that Mullins was dealt quite a blow when Gigginstown removed their horses. That was something to do with fees. Not hard to see who came out the winner in that little squabble.

    #1691653
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
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    • Total Posts 3851

    Jonjo’s stable has been hit by the virus for the past 20 years or so. But, I think JP has lesser horses with him nowadays.

    #1691656
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 31975

    To equate how Mullins is dominating jumps racing today with Dickinson having the first 5 home in the Gold Cup in 83 or Fred Winter’s stable is crazy.

    Dickinson and Winter did not dominate the whole of Racing in their day like Mullins does today.
    Even Martin Pipe did not dominate the top races like Mullins.

    Value Is Everything
    #1691657
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 2948

    Pipe didn’t really have a lot of G1 type firepower to call upon and it really wasn’t his MO (of the big three races at Cheltenham he managed just two Champion Hurdle wins) – he did well in handicaps but really farmed the lower grade races like no other because his horse’s were much fitter than his rivals, the number of his horses that ran up big winning sequences was unheared of at the time.

    Michael Dickinson had that dominant period in the early 80s where he won a lot of the big races – in back to back years (1982 and 1983) he won the Charlie Hall Chase (Righthand Man & Wayward Lad), King George (both times with Wayward lad), the Queen Mother Champion Chase (Rathgorman & Badsworth Boy) & the Gold Cup (Silver Buck & Bregawn), he also won the 1982 Hennessy (Bregawn).

    Mullins is just doing it on a vastly different scale with numbers that are simply unheard of – in recent years the teams he takes to Cheltenham alone would have been bigger than most yards total number of horses back in the day.

    #1691658
    moehat
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    • Total Posts 9152

    Am I right in thinking that he doesn’t eg do lots of breathing operations on his horses? I was thinking today that it’s important to him to achieve this milestone in his career as he into getting any younger, then realised he’s quite a few years younger than me!

    #1691667
    stilvi
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    • Total Posts 4934

    Ginger,

    I think you are far too dismissive of the old greats. Within the confines of numbers (Mullins has at least 3/4 times their numbers) and a totally different programme book, the likes of Winter, Dickinson, and Pipe were all extremely dominant figures. Dreaper should also be included in that list. He trained the two best jumpers in history, and plenty of other quality horses. He also had success in the Mackeson, Massey-Ferguson, Hennessy Gold Cup, and Whitbread when they were proper races, not the pale shadows they are now. Those five horses that Winter had at the same time stand up against anything Mullins has produced. Crisp put up the best Grand National performance in history, Bula and Lanzarote were from the Champion Hurdle golden era, Pendil was one of best horses never to win a Gold Cup, and Killiney as good a novice chaser as anything that Mullins has produced. Dickinson made a massive impact in a relatively short career. To get the first five home in the premier jump race was clearly a fantastic achievement. Pipe took the art of training winners to a new level. He dominated on a daily basis, but he didn’t have the quality of horse to replicate the same level of success at the Festivals. These trainers didn’t in the main benefit from the vast increase in Graded races, including Mares’ and Bumper races.

    #1691687
    MissIsabella
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    • Total Posts 21

    These trainers didn’t in the main benefit from the vast increase in Graded races, including Mares’ and Bumper races.
    Well said Stilvi.

    If & I doubt they do Cheltenham want to review the festival then get rid of the mares chase & hurdle & the bumper.Also the Ryanair & the intermediate distance races.
    Go back to 3 days with proper Championship races.
    But they will never do that as only one thing matters now.Money.

    #1691689
    FinalFurlong91
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6633

    Aintree was a much better meeting because of the mullins runners

    Same goes for Ayr and Perth yesterday

    Sandown Saturday looks a cracking days racing with the mullins horses added

    Be very modest without them

    #1691695
    moehat
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    • Total Posts 9152

    That’s a bit of an insult to the northern trainers isn’t it?

    #1691722
    Avatar photoQuelle Farce
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    • Total Posts 703

    Is it me, but does the huge size of the Grand National pot totally dominate the trainers’ championship too much? One single race shouldn’t make that much difference to the title.

    #1691724
    mickeyjp
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    • Total Posts 1614

    Mullins going for the title has made the after Cheltenham period much more interesting and shows there’s life outside Cheltenham. Funny how all 3 going for the title are running so many horses when they weren’t before.

    #1691735
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 31975

    Stilvi,
    You’ve got the wrong end of the stick.
    The trainers I quoted were all great trainers, as are the ones you quoted… And Dickenson’s Gold Cup 5 was indeed a “fantastic achievement”… That one and the other achievements you quote were even better because they did not have the overall number of horses (and number of quality horses) Mullins has now at his disposal… And as you rightly imply, Mullins has many more Grade 1 races nowadays to farm.

    The point is as I said in my post:
    “Dickinson and Winter did not dominate THE WHOLE of Racing in their day like Mullins does today.
    Even Martin Pipe did not dominate the TOP RACES like Mullins”.

    …Therefore – as the title of the thread says – I do find the Willie Mullins domination of Racing boring, whereas I did NOT find the great trainers of the past at all boring.

    Personally, I don’t see any difference in our opinions, Stilvi. :rose:

    Value Is Everything
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