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Is the era of Ballydoyle domination over?

Home Forums Horse Racing Is the era of Ballydoyle domination over?

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  • #1561700
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    O’Brien has said about St Mark’s Basilica:

    “We haven’t had anything like him. He had the best mind I think I have ever seen in a thoroughbred…a mind made of absolute concrete.”

    How does he know? Has he literally seen into the horse’s mind?

    O’Brien started this sort of rubbish talk a few years ago. If only a racing journalist had the backbone to call out such obvious bull.

    #1561703
    LD73
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    I think for those of us racing fans that have been around long enough (especially through the Aiden years) we are now at a stage where we just roll our eyes and say ‘ok Aiden’ when we hear these type comments from him.

    Quite frankly I really don’t see how it can advertise whatever horse Aiden plonks the moniker on as a stallion prospect to those in the industry that are wise/grizzled enough to have alread cut through all the hype bs to know exactly what new stallion will likely be a potentially good match for their mare.

    In that regard Aiden’s comments are about as useful as a chocolate teapot and are no doubt taken just as seriously by prospective clients.

    #1561704
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    tbf tbh imo St Marks Basilica does appear to have an excellent “mind”. Don’t know how Timeform describe St Marks Basilica, but with his record and way of running… I’d be surprised if he doesn’t have at least some of the old Timeform adage “game, genuine and consistent, a credit to his trainer“.

    Value Is Everything
    #1561707
    mickeyjp
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    I’m sure breeders who have mares to be covered won’t listen to hype and will look at the bloodlines and what they think of the horse. SMB is a magnificent looking animal and always seemed to be so calm for a horse with such tremendous acceleration. I’d rate him alongside almanzour and ahead of roaring lion as top 10 furlong horses of the last few years. The ratings are mostly based on opinion and unless we get a top performance in the arc he will be the highest rated horse of the year. His will be judged as a stallion on cold hard stats though. I’d imagine the fee for him will be around 80 grand and will rise and fall on how his progeny do.
    Aiden I’m sure has an idea of the top horses he’s trained but has to say the latest is the best as the lads expect him too. Even Ryan is saying this too. Pinch of salt indeed needed.

    #1561708
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Of course some breeders and some of those they sell to listen to hype – Coolmore wouldn’t do this year after year if they hadn’t had success with generating interest in their new stallions and their progeny by hyping them up.

    There are many “magnificent looking animals” – this just sounds like part of the meaningless hype to me.

    In the Eclipse El Drama was only six lengths behind him.

    How many horses could beat El Drama six lengths?

    Loads, frankly.

    The ratings are based on collateral form, not opinion, and an OR of 127 looks correct to me.

    It makes him a decent Group 1 colt, but no superstar historically.

    Horses like Frankel and Brigadier Gerard set a historical benchmark for excellence Sir Mark’s Basilica doesn’t come within a stone of.

    And it’s a shame neither the media nor many in racing will say so and challenge this tedious repetitive hype year after year after year.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1561714
    clivexx
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    “We haven’t had anything like him. He had the best mind I think I have ever seen in a thoroughbred…a mind made of absolute concrete.”

    Thats an endorsement?

    Does he like his horses to be particularly stupid or something?

    Wonder what SMB thinks of being referred to as a cementhead

    #1561716
    clivexx
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    • Total Posts 2702

    I long stopped listening to Listen.

    Coolmore will always be admired but never ever loved

    #1561719
    mickeyjp
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    • Total Posts 1702

    Not sure about that. It’s a massive operation and there is bound to be folk envious of them but many racing folk I know are great admirers of listen. Each to their own.

    #1561727
    Blackcountry Kid
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    So St Mark’s Basilica is to be retired.
    Why does this smack of running scared to me?
    They seem to have barely scratched the surface with this colt and at now are ready to rush him off to stud.
    I’m aware of the comments about an injury,but they seem neither life threatening or to my mind career ending.Unless something more comes to light it’s just a way to cash in and avoid putting any dent in the horses reputation.
    good luck to all

    #1561734
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    O’Brien has described St Mark’s Basilica as “possibly the best horse we have ever had.”
    Maybe my memory is playing tricks but doesn’t he say something like that every time a Group 1 winning colt gets retired?

    Horses like Frankel and Brigadier Gerard set a historical benchmark for excellence Sir Mark’s Basilica doesn’t come within a stone of.

    AOB’s top three being:

    Hawk Wing 136: With that 136 only put up once – in the 2003 Lockinge.

    Galileo 134: Given his record as a stallion, Galileo might have put up a better rating had he raced on at four, but that is an IF you can say about many horses.

    Rip Van Winkle 134: Achieved in the 2009 Sussex.

    No O’Brien horse has ever been rated by Timeform within 10 lbs of Frankel’s 147.
    So to be fair to O’Brien, Sir Marks Basilica does not need to be anywhere near the ratings of Frankel or The Brigadier in order to be “possibly the best horse we (O’Brien/Coolmore) have ever had”.

    ie Technically he’s right – every year AOB is going to have a horse/s who have the potential to be “possibly the best we have ever had“.

    Value Is Everything
    #1561750
    Avatar photobefair
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    • Total Posts 2008

    The envy is strong in this thread

    #1561769
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    “AOB’s top three being:”

    Pretty sure Excelebration was rated 135 in Racehorses of 2012; will check when I get home.

    Checked- he was rated 133. My memory ain’t what it used to be. :wacko:

    #1561770
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    “The envy is strong in this thread”

    An absurd comment, IMO.

    If that was the case, so-called “envy” would be rife here regarding virtually all matters in this monied sport.

    If you can’t observe that the racecourse achievements don’t equate to the hype without being accused of jealousy we might as well all cease posting.

    If there is one strong undercurrent I detect on this and all racing forums at times, it is blind deference and a complete refusal to challenge anything.

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    #1561772
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    “…it is blind deference and a complete refusal to challenge anything”

    That applies to life in general, not just racing, and results in Bozo and his ilk running the country.

    But that’s a discussion for a different thread.

    #1561773
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Agreed on both counts.

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    #1561778
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    It is not envy. I just find this talk of horses having good minds a bit irritating. Other trainers say it as well but O’Brien says it more than most.

    You did not hear such talk, even a few years ago. It is OK to say a horse is tough or genuine but spare us the beautiful mind rubbish.

    #1561804
    Avatar photoAndyRAC
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    I thought Istabraq was his best – or doesn’t that count as he is merely a jumper…..

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