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I can think of at least one horse who travels better than Fame And Glory, Fist
Sea The Stars came late to win the Guineas having travelled well, came less than two furlongs out to win the Derby having travelled well, and went on over two furlongs out in the Eclipse to win (when joined) going away. He’s won every way there is to win, other than having made all, so quite why he’d go in to a match against Zenyatta (wide margin winners in the US aren’t always what they appear to be – taxi for Smarty Jones) as the underdog I have no idea.
Still, it’s only supposition however you look at it (though if you want a friendly, Arc-based wager, Fist, I’ll suggest that Sea The Stars – should he run – will thump Conduit in much the same way he did at Sandown).
As for the suggestion that the winner was the inadvertent beneficiary of another tactical nightmare from Ballydoyle, dostoy, I have to ask – what planet are you on? Whether you sit two lengths off a strong pace, or six lengths off a strong pace, you’re still running at the same speed as those in front (assuming, of course, that you’re not falling further and further behind). Fame And Glory almost certainly needed that sort of gallop to have any chance – as it was he was comprehensively outclassed – but are you suggesting that a couple of lengths of additional effort early on cost Mastercraftsman?
Give me strength.
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Can anyone verify the time recorded by the Racing Post – 0.3s
below
standard and over 3s faster than Poet in the earlier Group 3?
If correct, that’s an immense performance.
The horse is an freak of nature..
He found an extra 3l from nowhere on ground that wasnt ideal to beat Mastercraftsman.
Without doubt the greatest horse Since Nijinsky this side of the Irish Sea….
My word i hope he wins the ARC….Take on Casual Conquest again lol…he didnt beat the Ambulance home…Conduit (SMS never won the Arc and already smashed him)….Fame+Glory( has to find 2-3l at least). And then there is Stacelita and by all accounts she isnt a Zarkava.
7/4 is a price….he should be evens already.
WOW….KNELL DOWN AND PRAISE THE HORSE RACING GODS FOR SUCH A TALENT
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I honest meant to add "Apart from Sea the Stars" to that post mate.
I have to agree Sea the Stars has done it all ways but my feelings is why risk it. If Zenyatta was anywhere near him the way she finishes there could be only one result. Of course if Mick Kinane kicked on 2 or 3 furlong from home I doubt if she would be able to……..but when she gets going she’s like and express train going past.
The likes of Curlin was a differnet ball game..more of an ordinary horse in the way he raced but these two US fillies aren’t normal. One is like a AOB pacemaker with an outboard moter attached to her backside that she truen on at halfway and the other only starts galloping 6 furlongs from home and covers the ground like Loch Song with a rocket tied to hers.
STS is all lass but changeing tactics to compensate for a trip their is no need to take wouldn’t be my choice. Go to the Arc…normal race..press the button and win by a couole of lengths….be top dog at stud 2nd to none.
STS V Conduit with 5 lengths of a start or Fame and Glory V Conduit with 2 1/2 lengths of a start………PM me nearer the time if you fancy either by all means
These "ordinary" 3yo’s just keep on fluking it somehow. If only i was an expert race reader i’d have stopped backing Sea The Stars after that flukey win in a farce of a Derby.
Peruvian, to be fair today’s proved nothing in terms of the 3yos vs older horses. STS is clearly exceptional and I don’t see anybody doubting that (anymore), but what did today show? That Casual Conquest is crap? Come on, we knew that months ago.
Re AOB tactics:
It may seem strange to hold up a stayer, but everything depends on pace. If it is a strong pace (as here), then there is no problem, stamina will come in to play anyway (see Conduit in Breeders Cup). Unlike in the English Derby when Fame And Glory got a poor ride, held up in a comparitively slowly run race, not that it made any difference.Mastercraftsman may have been prominent because Coolmore wanted STS (Mick) to be keeping an eye on that horse. While FAG (Murtagh) could do what he pleased. Mastercraftsman stayed alright, just beaten by two better horses.
The two Coolmore pacemakers once again went off at suicidal pace. If these were just normal runners then questions would be asked. If punters are able to back a horse (no matter what price), it should be trying to win. Were those two jockeys actually trying to win? If not then they were NON-TRIERS.
Gripe Over.What a brilliant horse Sea The Stars is, do believe he’s even better than distances suggest; idles in front. Fame And Glory (imo) lost no caste in defeat, over a trip likely to be short of his best. This horse was at the top of my list to win the Leger at the start of the year. Yes, on soft going he does have a fair chance of reversing the places with the Oxx star in the Arc.
There is (still) a doubt as to whether Sea The Stars will stay a truly run 1m4f on soft going; or indeed be as good on soft full stop. And FAG may be better in those circumstances. Very much doubt that FAG or Conduit will be as good in a soft Arc as STS was today though. Awsome.
Has Zenyatta ever beaten a real top class field of colts as well as fillies? Has Stacelita?
Zenyatta may have a blistering turn of foot against the opposition she’s faced. But she’s been up against nothing of the calibre of Sea The Stars, who also has a telling burst of speed.
Stacelita could be anything, but only could be. Think some people are seeing Zarcava instead of Stacelita, this season’s filly is yet unproven at the very top level.Value Is EverythingI don’t think a Tattersalls Group 1 winner could be described as "crap" Zarkava. I think today has confirmed that Sea The Stars won the Derby despite a slow pace not because of it – the colt is suited by a very strong pace, as the stopwatch and the formbook confirms. I have no doubts about this personally.
After watching todays race, do you think the result would have differed with an additional couple of furlongs? I severely doubt it, the horse is different class. When is the last time any horse, never mind a 3yo, was without question (in my opinion) the best around at 8f, 10f and 12f?
I hope he goes to The Arc – the one to beat seems a huge understatement somehow.
It was a real privilege to be there today to see a true champion. I was surprised at the size of the crowd, no bigger than you’d get at one of the smaller days of the Christmas meeting- just shows how Flat racing doesn’t grab us as a nation like the jumps. Sea The Stars is the perfect racehorse- he shows no sign of temperament and was like a police horse in the heaving throng surrounding him after the race. To turn up in top condition for 5 Group 1 races in a row is a tribute to John Oxx and his team and you’d have to hope he stays unbeaten until he retires. He’s been lucky with the ground this year and I’d only expect him to show up at Longchamp on decent ground- 12f on soft might be asking too much. He looks nailed on for the BC Classic though- you’d have to wonder if they’ll be tempted to let him down for a couple of weeks, miss the Arc and go straight there. If that happens, Fame and Glory looks the obvious favourite in Paris with the extra distance and any dig in the ground sure to suit.
If anything STS seemed to have improved from York. A fantastic performance by a fantastic horse. I so wish he was going for the Triple Crown, He could doss around for a gallop and still win! Now, one last super show in the Arc and his place in legend is assured.
i think fame and glory is a big lay for the arc after his performance today because sea the stars could have won by 6 or 7 len
its beetween conduit and sts for the arc nothing elseI think one other thing must be said.
Its almost certain that Sea The Stars will stand at Irish National Stud….his sibling by Invinicble Spirit is to go into training with John Oxx next year too.
Tsui was unable to make it due to work commitments in the States but Irish National Stud were representing him….make of it as you will but for some reason it looks very unlikely the TSUI Family will sell this animal.
Why would you sell the greatest horse these shores have seen in 20 years? I just hope he can "function" at stud lol!
Without Sea The Stars, Fame And Glory would be unbeaten and probably be hailed as some kind of superstar
But really, Sea The Stars is fantastic and owns MCM and FAG
Thing is, he has
won on soft-to-heavy going. The Arc or Breeders Cup will be the final acid test for him but, in his current form, he could beat anything that’s around today.
Brilliant horse!
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Brilliant performance, best of his career imo, and a big improvement on his York win, though given his facile victory, he’s firmly laid the ghost that ‘ he only does enough to win’.
I can’t see anything in his form to suggest he won’t be equally as good at 12f; today’s race was run at a truly searching pace, he was full of running at the end, and despite what many suppose, there are few Arcs run on softer ground that today’s, so there is little reason why he shouldn’t go there.
Undoubtedly, imo, he’ll meet better horses there than he has today, but he’d have a better chance than he would over 10f around the sharp Santa Anita track, and I sincerely hope he takes the opportunity.SMS has already said he was well below his best in the Eclipse and still wasn’t 100% in the King George whereas AOB said F and G was spot on.
Add all that together and it doesn’t take a genius to work out thet over 1m4f Conduit will be a whole different ball game come the Arc.
Howver if you want to stick to your 5 length 2 1/2 length theory be my guest but if you go to France make sure you buy a return ticket or you’ll be walking home
SMS said this, SMS said that. Biiiiiiiigggggggggggggggg fecking yawn. You’re basically saying here that you put more store in what a trainer says than the actual form book. Unreal.
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You bet your silly ar$e I am……..90% of races don’t work out to form and that’s why most punters are flat broke…….go crawl back into bed Rip Van Euro where you belong.
If you want to disagree with me and put a constructive case together I’ll debate with you all day……come on here and start insulting me. As they say in France go fook yourselfWhatsmore if you don’t know by now that SMS is a man of few words who seldom says anything until he is damn sure he can back it up then you shouldn’t be punting.
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