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I have been telling people for the last 2 months that Rock Of Gibraltar would run in the English 2000 Guineas just ask Steve M or Prince R. I think what O’Brien feared was if he went over to the other side Naheef and King of Happiness(generally regarded as his two biggest dangers) would be on the other side and they could have the advantage over there. Seriously though the rate this forum is going there is a conspiracy theory behind every move in Ballydoyle.
I thought AOB’s explanation of the riding instructions was fairly plausible. They had a horse either side of the draw so they instructed the jockeys to ride apart.  OK, it did seem likely that the far side would ride quicker but imagine what people would have said if Hawk Wing had tacked across the track only for the first two to have raced up the middle to stands side. They played the percentages and basically it paid off big time.<br>As for the "consideration for the punters" I can only assume Escorial’s tongue was firmly in his cheek. Since when have the Coolmore team worried about the punters? And indeed, why should they?
(Edited by johnny boy at 5:36 pm on May 7, 2002)
<br> it makes sense for the trainer not to put all his eggs in one basket which is probably the reasoning behind running 2 in the race he lost by a shortening neck just unfortuanate if u ask me.
anything as we all know can happen in a race what would have happened if redback missed the break there would have been a slower pace that side as well.
Shall we all calm down.
If Hawk Wing had followed the Redback pace, 9 punters out of 10 agree he would have won.
It is possible that Jamie Spencer was given no orders, that he cocked up and simply took the wrong option.
It is also entirely posible that he was following orders to stay on the near side (with the Stoute horse and Godolphin’s main hope).  We now see with the benefit of hindsight that, if given, this was a foolish instruction.  Even so, he might still have won the race if Spencer had committed the remarkable Hawk Wing just a half furlong or so earlier.
If Jamie was told to stay on the near side, it almost certainly had nothing to do with some sordid plot to land a gamble on the longer priced Rock Of Gibraltar. ÂÂÂ
(Edited by remittance man at 1:02 am on May 8, 2002)
<br>its unfortuanate and am afraid these things happen in racing i know whatn you are saying redback has never missed the break but what if?? and my only point in mentioning redback was that sometimes races do not pan out exactly as one would think.
perhaps the o brien pace maker should have moved towards the center
perhaps with all the talk from godolphin about naheef being more a derby horse they expected a stronger lead from him.
or perhaps as rm states if spencer had committed a half furlong earlier we wouldnt be having this discussion
O brien should have had two pacemakers. And it was not impossible to win the guineas from the stands side. Hawkwing had he been set alight earlier would have done so in my opinion. His defeat can be partly attributed to the dismal performances of KOH and naheef who O brien was trying to cover.
Funny how people complain about O’Brien having pacemakers or more than one runner yet now in 1000 and 2000 Guineas people are saying one of O’Briens should have gone on and made the running!!<br> Escorial I have yet to hear O’Brien say ROG was definately going for the French Guineas. To me it just seemed that everyone assumed he would be. Yes he may have been a possible for the French Guineas but the Ballydoyle cat was too!!! Indeed at the press day in Ballydoyle O’Brien clearly stated the 2000 Guineas(english version) was a "possibility" for ROG. I was always under the impression the 2000 Guineas was his aim.
<br>I dislike the idea of pacemakers but if they really must be used, use them in the right way! The Ballydoyle pacemakers weren’t helpful at all in the Guineas.
Who ever said they were pacemakers? Lahinch certainly deserved to take her chance in the 1000?
So you believe Lahinch was a pacemaker? I know people believe Ballydoyle aint great with pacemakers but their usual problem is going off too fast not too slow!! Slower the race the better for Lahinch who probably does’nt get a mile.
Possibly your right Escorial. But back to what Rob said about the Ballydoyle pacemakers not helping. It wasnt as if anything else in the field tried to go on.
Thats what I dont get Escorial. It NEVER looked as though the jockey was going to set a strong pace. PJ Scallon knows how to set a strong pace. What I think his instructions was to give the Ballydoyle fillies a lead(which he did) but nothing more than would hinder his own chances. Like he never even attempted to go a gallop. She was travelling well a furlong out…………..should be more than capable of picking up a decent(another) decent race just below the mile trip especially considering O’Brien said this filly was very hard to get fit last year. One things for sure nothing is going to get near Quarter Moon in a strong run race over a mile plus. Queens Logic will have to be at her very best in the Irish Guineas if they clash.
If pacemakers are ridden out then there’s nothing wrong with them. People crab races (i.e the 1000 Guineas) for no pace and on the other hand disapprove of pacemakers.
Look at the Irish Champion Stakes last year (best race I’ve seen) – the pacemakers were controversial but they set it up for a duel between the big two and Give The SLip never hindered Galileo, he was just there and Galileo had to go wide. And that sole incident is not why Galileo lost.
I never heard Lahinch was a pacemaker. I couldn’t find pace in the race and I knew Frankie would make the running on Kazzia as she stays.
I think if a stable states a horse is a pacemaker then a "P" should be on the racecard in the same way a "t" is for a tonguestrap so punters know the situation.
I think that Coolmore uses real jockeys on contenders and work riders on pacemakers. And I think that is the weakness of Coolmore’s use of pacemakers. They might have won even when milan broke down if they had a proper jockey on the pacemaker. Let’s be honest if these ‘lads" were real jockeys other yards would be using them when they are available.<br>Dear meshaheer surely forcing one horse to go wide and allowing another up on your inside is contributing more than just pace to the race?You make it sound like an act of God that he was just there. I believe that Gal lost by a lot less than what he gave up by going wide.
<br>I think Pacemakers should be clearly stated on a racecard and in the paper.
Pacemakers should also be removed from the betting and, if one wins, then it would be like betting without the pacemaker – the horse in second would be called the winner for gambling purposes but the pacemaker would have the glory of being the victor. Pacemakers take some of the fun out of picking a winner, they are there to make things easier for their stablemates – i feel sorry for horses that are front-runners and high class but can’t get to the front because of a pacemaker.
Pacemakers are not sent out to win- Summoner was sent out to set up the race for Noverre but Richard Hills was smart and nicked the G1. Pacemakers are non-triers as they are sent out to lose the race – the one’s that win are often given good rides by smart jockey’s. Surely that doesn’t make for a good Group form? What’s Summoner done since he won the G1 QEII?
In fairness Rob we have been over that race now a thousand times. Summoner one on merit. Leaving out the winner , what has the rest of the field done from the QEII Rob ????
<br>Summoner won because A) he’s a decent horse B) his jockey set up the race for him.
The merit of the QEII form overall is not what i’m bothered about – i’m bothered about the form of the winner. The best horse should win Group One races and Summoner was not the best horse in the field – Noverre was down the field in the BC Mile but has since reversed form with Summoner by about 6l’s.
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