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So you are saying the best horse always wins and horses never reverse form in different conditions ?????
Robgomm,<br>What you say makes sense in regards to betting.. However if there is a real front runner in the race the pacemakers should not be allowed since the only reason for one in that case is to burn off the speed horse not to set a pace.However it must be admitted that pacemakers separate the horses who stay the distance from those who don’t.
<br>What i’m saying is that the best horse SHOULD always win a Group race – they are high class races. Obviously things can go wrong like injuries or the wrong ground etc.
No i’m not saying horses don’t reverse from in different condtions. But the reason Noverre reversed form in Dubai is because Summoner couldn’t kick clear and Noverre was plainly better. Tamburlaine also reversed form with Summoner.
Summoner was not the best horse in the QEII – can that be disputed?
robgomm<br>I read somewhere that the trainer of Ruffian used to say to his jockey as he was mounting "she will win if you don’t screw it up". The best horse will win if nobody screws it up. And even then they sometimes win.
Summoner and Rock Of Gibraltor both won because they were given clever rides (not so much in Murtaghs case) and had the conditions to suit. You dont give a game front runner a soft lead off no pace with a 2 furlong run in on soft ground , do you ?
Define the phrase "best horse" before a Group race ? <br>So the favourite should always win Group races. So jockey tactics , pace of a race , going , etc have no bearing on the result of a race. If it were as easy as the best horse winning Rob than there would be no bookmakers. Did the best horse in the field win this years Champion Hurdle ?
(Edited by Gearoid VI at 12:55 pm on May 10, 2002)
Gearoid ,<br>The point of the race is to establish which is the best horse.<br>You cannot say which is best before a race.The most a good jockey can do is to not deminish the ability of the best horse to win.Jamie Spencer on HW is an example of the jockey not allowing the best horse to win.If you can eliminate the ability of the jockey to screw it up the best horse will win.
I certainly agree that the best horse did not win the 2000gns, but was that the jockeys fault or the trainers? I saw AOB walking the course before racing had started, & I’ll bet he wasn’t doing it just for the exercise, he was trying to establish where the best ground was.
AOB has clearly given Spencer instructions to race on an unfavoured part of the track, & riding to orders Spencer has ended up closest to the stands rail. If AOB told Spencer to hold the horse up as well (we don’t know that) I don’t see what else the poor jockey could have done. If Spencer was not told to hold the horse up, then I agree he was just too slow to react to the threat from the far-side group. Imo HW would have won if he had been raced prominently down the centre or stand side of the track.
Who are the winners & losers, well the punters were the losers (including me). AOB & his family were winners, having now bred a classic winner in RoG, & AOB gets a 1-2 in a classic thrown in for good measure. Alex Ferguson was a winner, he’s now a classic winning owner, ironic as the Coolmore operation seem to have been buttering him up for some time (or maybe they are patronising him & no-one actually realises!) Maybe he’s the new chairman in waiting of Man Utd., with the Coolmore supremos as the controlling shareholders?
Whatever the reasoning, I find it a most unsatisfactory outcome, & my opinion of AOB has gone down quite a bit since last week. Sttill a great trainer, but his own man & punter friendly, I’m now not sure. The fact that HW is now 1/3 to reverse the placings in the Irish 2000gns says it all.
btw Well done Escorial on your jockey booking hunch. Although I’m still convinced that on a level playing field the likes of RoG & Redback will be well & truly put in thier place….but then I’m still smarting from my loss!
Collin<br>A lesson to be learned. The people who pay the piper call the tune.The two dollar punter will never be privy to the inside information.But in passing was it possible for Jamie to fake that look of disgust? Did Aidan know that he only had to beat Hawkey that nothing would come to get RGon tne line. That Jamie could judge it so perfectly to be beaten so close? That Rangers would get a goal in the 92 minute to win .Sorry for a minute I got carried away and thought I was talking anout God not a mortal who does his best and sometimes things don’t work out.
Obviously you are going to put up Murtagh on the one you want to win especially since he rides for John Oxx , Stoute and the Queen. Why would you want the next up and coming jockey who rides consistantly for the stable to be on the 6/4 favourite who could demand a monster stud value with the Guineas as his first classic. Obviously they knew Rock of Gibraltor was going to win. Escorial etc , leave you address and we will send you a copy of the form book and a copy of Who shot JFK.
I can quite honestly say Spencer but I am biased towards Jamie as you are to Murtagh. Why to Hills get any rides at all. Its not what you know its who you know.
(Edited by Gearoid VI at 8:09 pm on May 11, 2002)
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