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Can we steer away from the Pro-Anti Fox Hunting debate and just stick to the question in hand.
Point to Point and Hunter Chases are an integral part of the Uk Jumps Scene in the same way that Village Cricket and Lower League Football and Rugby is to their respective sports.
If you wanted to ban Hunter Chases then you may aswell ban Lower League Football and Rugby finals from Wembey and Twickenham also axing the Village Cricket Final at Lords.
If you dont like Hunter Chases then just dont back in them and see what the next race in the betting shop is.
Myself i love Hunter Chases and find them great spectacle to watch as the look on the face of the winning jockey is amazing as some of them have achieved their lifetime ambition to win a race on a racecourse.
I enjoy the Hunter Chases,its real grass roots Jump racing my problem is there is a massive gap between between the very good riders and the bad riders…and some of the bad ones are REALLY bad,and i sometimes wonder how they get a jockeys permit,and i know they have to learn somewhere but they shouldnt be riding in Hunter Chases.
Very kind of you to give me the benefit of the doubt, Gingertipster.
Just so that you are clear where I am coming from, turning pest control into a sport and a spectacle is distasteful and outdated – to me, and I made it clear it was to me – while it has recently become outdated in its previous form more widely by becoming banned by the laws of the land.
I would also find it distasteful if I called in Rentokil to sort out a rat problem and found that they turned up on my doorstep in hunting regalia and proceeded to treat it as a social and sporting event as well as a means for eradicating a nuisance.
Fortunately there seems no chance of Rentokil doing this or of taking over entire meetings, at Cheltenham and other places, and driving their vans up and down the home straight peeping their horns before the Rentokil Cup.
It is not possible to "steer away from the pro-anti fox hunting debate" when the "question in hand" involves, among other things, individuals’ attitudes to hunter chases being called hunter chases and of hunter chases being used as a vehicle for promoting hunting.
I am well aware that this is a view with which others on this forum, and indeed on this thread, do not agree, which is their prerogative. That is why I have made it clear all along that this is a personal belief.
The only true irrelevance I can see in the above discussion of whether hunter chases should be abolished – in name or in fact – is the bizarre diversion into quizzing people about their preferred means of pest extermination!
I would also find it distasteful if I called in Rentokil to sort out a rat problem and found that they turned up on my doorstep in hunting regalia and proceeded to treat it as a social and sporting event as well as a means for eradicating a nuisance.
I don’t know – it would make getting rid of rats a whole lot more amusing. I wonder whether Paul Nicholls would roll up in his pest control van and try to nick Rentokil’s fee?
It is not possible to "steer away from the pro-anti fox hunting debate" when the "question in hand" involves, among other things, individuals’ attitudes to hunter chases being called hunter chases and of hunter chases being used as a vehicle for promoting hunting.
You are effectively saying that we cannot discuss Hunter-Chases unless we also address the issue of foxhunting in that context???
That’s a bit polemical in the extreme.I would hope a chat about hunter chasers could be conducted in isolation without reference to the greater subject matter of Field Sports.There are other platforms and threads elswhere for that debate. (Same as if I discuss soccer, I would like to do so without a dialectic on the ethics of imported footbal-strips manufactured in Far-Eastern sweat-shops.)
lol, TDK.
hoofhearted.
the "question in hand" involves, among other things, individuals’ attitudes to hunter chases being called hunter chases and of hunter chases being used as a vehicle for promoting hunting.
People clearly can discuss all the "other things" that may be involved with hunter chases without specific reference to hunting.
I just do not find it acceptable, or even possible, to pretend that the subject has NOTHING to do with hunting, and should therefore be "steered away" from that, when the races are called "hunter chases" and continue to be used as a vehicle to promote hunting.
Indeed, having had my say – why I would like to see hunter chases discontinued in their current form – I would welcome discussion of other aspects of this subject. Other relevant aspects, that is.
lol, TDK.
I just do not find it acceptable, or even possible, to pretend that the subject has NOTHING to do with hunting, .
Prufrock, I don’t believe that anybody has pretended that hunter-chases are totally unrelated in heritage and style and modelling to the hunting field. It’s just that a straightforward chat about such races does not and should not have to be referenced to foxhunting each time.
Or are you suggesting that every post should be prefaced with a disclaimer that the author is vigorously opposed to hunting ……… along the lines of:"I would like to say, — but first I wish to emphasize that every hunter-chase is the satanic love-child of the foxhunting community — "
etc etc.?
It is not possible to "steer away from the pro-anti fox hunting debate" when the "question in hand" involves, among other things, individuals’ attitudes to hunter chases being called hunter chases and of hunter chases being used as a vehicle for promoting hunting.
We still occaisionally use the word "steeple chase" yet it is many years since there’s been racing from church to church. It is a tradition. So why do we have to scrap the word "hunters"? These horses no longer chase foxes over a field, so they are not "hunters" anymore. So what’s the problem with a name? It’s tradition.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI would also find it distasteful if I called in Rentokil to sort out a rat problem and found that they turned up on my doorstep in hunting regalia and proceeded to treat it as a social and sporting event as well as a means for eradicating a nuisance.
In the countryside, rats can be a big problem. When there are a lot, country people with jack russels are often called upon to go and hunt the rats down. These would sometimes be social occasionsThe dogs would catch and the kill would be quick either by the dog itself or the handlers. Where as Rentokill may well use other methods that cause a longer death. So what, if the rat hunters turn up in a uniform. So will Rentokill turn up in uniform, fox hunters had a uniform. What is wrong with the "regalia" (uniform)? Are you sure it is not the false image of a posh twit on horse back you are against? It does not matter to me if anyone gets pleasure from the kill, all that matters is the vermin concerned get a quick death.
Mark
Value Is EverythingVery kind of you to give me the benefit of the doubt, Gingertipster.
Just so that you are clear where I am coming from, turning pest control into a sport and a spectacle is distasteful and outdated – to me, and I made it clear it was to me – while it has recently become outdated in its previous form more widely by becoming banned by the laws of the land.
Some might say there is a fine line between "turning pest control in to a sport and spectacle" and the suffering and death of horses for sport and spectacle.
Mark
Value Is EverythingFortunately there seems no chance of Rentokil doing this or of taking over entire meetings, at Cheltenham and other places, and driving their vans up and down the home straight peeping their horns before the Rentokil Cup.
I agree with you on this one. I do think there is too much of a link between racing and hunting (the pro’s and cons of fox hunting). Racing should not be taking sides. Although it is difficult not to take sides. For example, not to allow a pack of hounds and hunting people to parade on a Countryside day, could be taken as taking sides against it. As is allowing them to do so.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI am well aware that this is a view with which others on this forum, and indeed on this thread, do not agree, which is their prerogative. That is why I have made it clear all along that this is a personal belief.
The only true irrelevance I can see in the above discussion of whether hunter chases should be abolished – in name or in fact – is the bizarre diversion into quizzing people about their preferred means of pest extermination!
Sorry you find it irrelevant or think I am quizzing you Prufrock, but to call one way of pest control "distateful" yet not offer an alternative; is in my opinion entirely relevant. Had you not used that word, there would not be a problem.
Mark
Value Is EverythingThanks for your considerate response.
On the last point, what I find "distasteful" is turning eradication or control of a pest into an entertainment and social occasion.
My alternative is NOT to turn eradication or control of a pest into an entertainment and social occasion.
I apologise for not having made that more explicit.
There are people better placed than I to make the call on how pests are best controlled in an environment where "recreation" is not a consideration.
As someone who has argued for the end of the close relationship between hunting and racing for decades now, I still feel that the term "hunter chases" and the parade of hunts etc alienates at least as many people as it attracts.
In comparison, "steeple chases", as a term and a term alone, is unlikely to frighten the horses or potential customers one bit.
O.k..Prufrock, I guess we shall have to agree to disagree. Shame we could not tell the people going fox-hunting NOT to enjoy it, and NOT to socialise before or after the event. Then there would not be a problem
Will now allow the thread to return to it’s original purpose. Sorry all, for the diversion.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI take it ZEE ZOO that you never followed pt to pt cos if you did you would probably find it more honest than proper racing and better value too …they race their hearts out for a trophy and 50 quid. The form stands out on a more consistent thread overall and I have had many a good profitable day out instead of being stuck in a bookies shop playing the virtual stuff as most do when nothing else is available. Dont be a mug get a life !!!
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