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It’s almost a kind predisposition to do so, kind sir Drone. And having had some truly arsey IT technician types at academic libraries trying (and failing) to trip me up during my Other Job, this isn’t the biggest confrontation I’ve dealt with today by any stretch.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
How is a punter meant to discern the form for these when hardly any of it is covered in print (unless you’re a serious anorak), and none of it is televised? What is the use of having these bloody races under Rules?
Pure betting shop fodder. If people want horses to run in Point To Points, then leave them to that discipline, but don’t expect us form students to bother with that bilge, thanks.
Tell you what mate, I’ll gladly introduce you to racing between the flags next season and if you meet me at Victoria Station for the train to the first Charing meeting of next season, I will even pay the pedestrian admission to that fine Kent track – all of a fiver. Jeremy is right and so is Drone and don’t forget you can access all manner of websites via Jumping For Fun -a site we are regularly on and costs the princely some of — nothing, which is why I use it. You will find form, informed opinion, tips (winning ones too) photos and me telling about the best food stands in the south east and there are some serious punters on there too.
We will happily put up with what you call bilge (that is what I call the all weather rubbish which is real betting shop fodder and a huge yawn) and have some right good days out. Like I say, money where mouth is mate and come and join us and see hunter racing first hand before coming out with the tripe you did.
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I find them a poor spectacle and have even less time for them from a punting perspective, but with about another 7000 races in the UK and Ireland to go at a year, I can’t see what harm they do.
It’s a laughable suggestion that they are just betting shop fodder too isn’t it given the general corinthian spirit of the participants.
Tell you what David those who really know he game and follow these horse can make good money out of punting them. I reckon the horses more consistant and easier to work out that your everyday chases at Plumpton Exeter etc.
Some Hunters in the past have been money making machines for the punter.
I have no problem with hunter chases on a card, much like cross-country races they furnish me with an ideal opportunity to have a leisurely pint.
Colin
kingscliff was pretty good.
i like them personally it gives us all a chance to see our old faourites running competitively even when they are older. Earthmover started and finished in hunterchases i think and he was a great horse to watch.
Remember Observe coming back to his home and winning at Cheltenham. Brilliant and a lovely bet at 14/1. If Ballycassidy had qualified this year I would have run him at Chelt and Aintree. Fantastic races and to be encouraged. A breath of fresh air.
- Total Posts 43
Bloody hell you’re a touchy lot in here, getting all hot under the collar over someone expressing an opinion that differs with yours, tut tut.
Graysoncolumn, I was referring to Point To Points not being televised, or even covered on the Racing Post’s site (outside the Irish form for some reason). And I dare say I won’t take up that challenge, as basically I’m a bone idle lazy bar steward who can’t be arsed going the extra mile for a disproportionate return.
Bbobell, why do you call me ‘mate’ and then in the same sentence accuse me of coming out with ‘tripe’? Thanks for the offer, but being a resident of the island of Ireland, there’s more chance of me getting a sniff of your Queen’s knickers than of attending a tweed clad affair in the middle of nowhere over yonder.
I’ve nothing against horses coming out of Points to compete under Rules, a lá Denman, but what I can’t be doing with is where they flit between the two, via Hunters’ Chases, and leave your average punter scratching around for clues as to what the hell is going on.
It’s just an opinion, and a topic for debate. If you want to sling mud and get all cranky, feel free; I find it quite amusing actually.
Zee Zoo
No, not touchy, just strong opinions which are the opposite to your own.
Regarding your last comment, I don’t think I slung any mud, and I’m pretty sure that graysonscolumn would do that either. I may have questioned your intentions in a round about way, but that in itself is not mudslinging. What you will get from ‘graysons’ is a passionate and well presented and well reasoned argument. If you don’t like that, well that’s your problem not his. You will have guessed from the comment in my first point on the thread that I knew what was coming.
Rob
Speaking as a total greenhorn on the subject of Hunter Chases, I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday evening’s hunter card from Folkestone. So much so that it gradually took precedence for me over the Ludlow card on RUK. As the evening wore on I became comfortable enough to bet on the last three races in-running!
A couple of things struck me. The form of these hunter chases is a lot more consistent than you will find in the lower-grade NH racing . And it appeared to this untrained eye that most — if not all — of the participants were actually "trying" ; which again is not something you would confidently state about Class 5 and 6 races under rules. Probably that the riders and connections are serious about trying to win the decent prizemoney (comparatively speaking to usual p-t-p prizemoney) and the kudo’s associated with winning a hunter-chase. Lastly, I would normally pay heed to the quality of jockey when making forming my judgements in normal NH races, and this factor ( a doubt about the caliber of Hunter chaser riders) was a concern. But I’ve come to realise that there is a hierarchy of excellence with Hunter riders as well — N Pearce, Wollacott, Waley-Cohen, etc — which can be significant. All-in-all, making hunter chases a decent enough environment for punting purposes if a person puts in the study.May I ask, could anybody recommend a web resource that contains previous hunter-chase form without a subscription fee? The SportingLife only provides LTO form for each runner in a race. (I haven’t used RacingPost site since it became "dotcom" some time back). Jeremy G has mentioned that an earlier thread this year contained a repository of such sources, but I cannot find it.
Ta in advance.
Hoof.- Total Posts 17716
Bloody hell you’re a touchy lot in here, getting all hot under the collar over someone expressing an opinion that differs with yours, tut tut.
Graysoncolumn, I was referring to Point To Points not being televised, or even covered on the Racing Post’s site (outside the Irish form for some reason). And I dare say I won’t take up that challenge, as basically I’m a bone idle lazy bar steward who can’t be arsed going the extra mile for a disproportionate return.
Bbobell, why do you call me ‘mate’ and then in the same sentence accuse me of coming out with ‘tripe’? Thanks for the offer, but being a resident of the island of Ireland, there’s more chance of me getting a sniff of your Queen’s knickers than of attending a tweed clad affair in the middle of nowhere over yonder.
I’ve nothing against horses coming out of Points to compete under Rules, a lá Denman, but what I can’t be doing with is where they flit between the two, via Hunters’ Chases, and leave your average punter scratching around for clues as to what the hell is going on.
It’s just an opinion, and a topic for debate. If you want to sling mud and get all cranky, feel free; I find it quite amusing actually.
Sticking to the subject and not wishing to get into name calling I would suggest you are being very selfish.
You want to do away with something that gives thousands of people pleasure but I can’t understand why.
90% of the bets I have are in top class races but I loved going to Hexam, Kelso, Perth and Market Rasen. Most of the racing was of pretty poor by Cheltenham standards but the atmosphere was a 100 times better.
Many people love point to points in the same way so why would you want to deprive them of that?
There is nothing difficult in ignoring Hunter Chases and any horse that runs in them. If you can’t be bothered studying point to points and Hunters the simply don’t.
If that sounds blunt I apologies but really I can’t think of a better way of saying it.
- Total Posts 43
Wasn’t referring to you Robnorth.
I like blunt, Fist, give me blunt any day over namby pamby fence sitting. You’ve avoided being blunt there in any case. You’ve also picked me up wrongly. I haven’t said I want to do away with Pointing. I simply don’t believe that racing which is not accessable to punters in the same way that all other racing is (i.e. by being able to view all the Point races, and being able to access its form alongside regular form) , has a place under Rules.
On the subject of riders. Aren’t a lof of them 50 year old bags of skin and bone strapped to the back of an animal holding on for grim life? How could you take them seriously???
Edited to note that the above point is invalid (thanks to Ann Stokell & Barry Connell)
Quite simple if you dont like Hunter Chases then dont back on them.
We have a huge amount of racing in this country in various codes and surfaces so if you dont like a particular kind then leave it.
Edited to note that the above point is invalid (thanks to Ann Stokell & Barry Connell)
Ann Stokell is a capable horsewoman. She can’t ride a finish to save her life, but she’s a capable horsewoman nevertheless.
I simply don’t believe that racing which is not accessable to punters in the same way that all other racing has a place under Rules.
Question: you wouldn’t be assured of getting full form for any international racing that gets shown on the specialist channels or in bookies, depending on the horses involved and the country in which it’s taking place. The US racing on ATR is as good an example of this as any. By the same virtue of inaccessibility – real or imagined – of the form, would you sooner this had no place on our TV screens?
On the subject of riders. Aren’t a lof of them 50 year old bags of skin and bone strapped to the back of an animal holding on for grim life? How could you take them seriously???
Given the competence of weighing-room greybeards such as Godfrey Maundrell and – until his retirement a year or so ago – Stuart Robinson, the answer is very easily.
Edited to note that the above point is invalid (thanks to Ann Stokell & Barry Connell)
It certainly is invalid – Mr Connell hasn’t ridden in an Irish point-to-point for at least five years: (source: p2p.ie), if indeed he ever did. Ann Stokell likewise over here.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
On the subject of riders. Aren’t a lof of them 50 year old bags of skin and bone strapped to the back of an animal holding on for grim life? How could you take them seriously???
John Thorne didn’t do badly when he was a 54-year-old ‘bag of skin and bone’. He got closer to winning the Grand National than most.
Dick Saunders won the race and he was 48 at the time.
Rob
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