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Hong Kong tomorrow

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 49 total)
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  • #55579
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Here’s a race

    Admire Moon<br>Vengeance is Rain<br>Dylan Thomas<br>Soldier of Fortune<br>Viva Pacata<br>Regime<br>Sir Percy<br>Red Rocks

    <br>chuck in those still to make their appearances like Rail Link, Passage of Time etc and  the potential middle distance horses running at weekend

    you would have a humdinger of a race imo

    (Edited by empty wallet at 12:24 am on May 3, 2007)

    #55582
    War Admiral
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    • Total Posts 23

    For anyone that hasn’t seen it yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns5t1PhXFlI

    #55585
    Zorro
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    • Total Posts 472

    Why are you so sure of that, empty wallet? It was a nothing race that Invasor won in Dubai. Bullish Luck was beaten even further at his right trip and on his own surface next time. He had never even attempted dirt before.<br>Invasor has beaten nothing on turf, and hasn’t been asked to. My guess is that he couldn’t anyway.<br>Turf and dirt racing are so different from each other, but more turf horses can make a fist of things on dirt than dirt horses on turf. In fact, name one horse since Secretariat who was nearly equally good on both.<br>But very few horses outside America race on dirt. It is just a deferential (to America) convention that we acclaim the best dirt horse as the best in the world.

    (Edited by Zorro at 12:57 pm on May 3, 2007)

    #55587
    Salselon
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    • Total Posts 883

    Quote: from Zorro on 12:53 pm on May 3, 2007[br]In fact, name one horse since Secretariat who was nearly equally good on both.<br>

    Dubai Millennium perhaps ;)

    #55589
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Zorro

    My  handicapping techniques tell me he is the best horse in the World so far in 2007 as he was in 2006, if your method says different,  then fine

    <br>Whether he’ll be the best in the world by year end i’m not sure,  i actually think one may pass him this year and it will be a turf horse

    <br>BTW, 2nd best performance in world (2007)  according to me, Admire Moon

    <br>

    (Edited by empty wallet at 2:22 pm on May 3, 2007)

    #55590
    empty walletempty wallet
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    Also Zorro, although i’ve no stats, but from my observations i think you may find it’s turf to dirters that struggle and not the other way, Bullish Luck being one example

    (Edited by empty wallet at 2:46 pm on May 3, 2007)

    #55591
    Gareth Flynn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 583

    In fact, name one horse since Secretariat who was nearly equally good on both.

    I thought you were an Electrocutionist fan, Zorro?<br>

    #55592
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Lava Man is another who equally as good on Dirt and Turf

    Boboman another, do i need to  keep searching Zorro?

    <br>Breeding, action, running style, ability to handle kickback decides transition between the different surfaces, much the same as a horse handling firm and soft on turf

    (Edited by empty wallet at 2:58 pm on May 3, 2007)

    #55593
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Quote: from empty wallet on 2:50 pm on May 3, 2007[br]

    <br>Breeding, action, running style, ability to handle kickback decides transition between the different surfaces, much the same as a horse handling firm and soft on turf

    <br>

    <br>In fact, why not ask Chief racing Correspondent James Wiloughby to do an article about the above to help others understand this, he does possess good knowledge in this area  and it would make a decent article imo

    (Edited by empty wallet at 3:08 pm on May 3, 2007)

    #55594
    Zorro
    Member
    • Total Posts 472

    James is fairly satisfied with the idea that dirt horses are the best I think. I’m the one who’s not. Re turf to dirt at the highest level: Giant’s Causeway, Hamdan’s Arc second who ran behind Tiznow (began with an S but mind’s gone blank) Johannesberg, Swain, right back to Paul Cole’s second to Unbridled in 1990 Breeders’ Cup. Could such as Tiznow, Invasor etc. win the Arc? I doubt it.<br> But because they never race on turf we never know, and never will now because dirt’s on its way out.<br>I don’t do figures. (Too lazy. Too stupid). But can’t see how figures would be relevant anyway as the dirt runners seldom crossover.<br>Two very poor turf horses were Cigar and Mineshaft, but I wouldn’t adduce either as evidence.:)

    #55595
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Zorro

    Why would a top Dirt horse want to try  turf, the money was on the Dirt,(now Polytrack) thats why the turf horse you mention have a crack at  top Dirt races.

    Thats why Ballydolye tried GW ( enhance his stud value) in fact they should try him again,  but at a mile, he was still in the mix until his stamina gave out

    You also need to understand that a lot of  horses suffer with bleeding etc and the use of drugs like Lasix allows them to  compete in the US, whereas over here they’d finish well beaten

    <br>The horse beginning with S was  Storming Home and although i can’t remember, i bet ran on Lasix to help him, the same with Mineshaft and many others that have been well stuffed over here, but perform over there

    <br>

    (Edited by empty wallet at 3:54 pm on May 3, 2007)

    #55596
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    The horse with S was Sakhee. Storming Home’s US wins were all gained on turf. Incidentally as a bit of useless trivia, Storming Home was the first horse to win a G1 race when fitted with cheekpieces.

    #55597
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Good memory DJ,forgotten about Sahkee and an interesting bit of trivia

    Zorro,

    ratings are transferable, but the rating awarded  on one surface may not be repeated on another, due to what i stated above breeding,action, etc, exactly the same as a rating awarded on fast turf ground does not hold up when the horse encounters soft

    <br>This is why understanding the why, what, where reasons for the rating is so important rather saying Deep Impact is 128 and best rated so he will beat all the 126 horses

    #55598
    Zorro
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    • Total Posts 472

    Thankyou for telling me what I need to understand, empty. But I don’t think you have taken my point.

    #55599
    empty walletempty wallet
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    • Total Posts 1631

    Maybe i’m just too stupid to understand point your trying to make and maybe your trying to be sarcastic in that last post

    I think your trying to say Invasor shouldn’t rated as best horse in World because he races on Dirt,  when majority of races around World are on turf

    If so, imo you’d be wrong

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