- This topic has 168 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
Someone on this thread said they could check all the winners from those years. Maybe they should look at important races at Thirsk in early summer 1947 where Charles Elsey trained a winner ridden by DL Jones.
Nothing matches, no winners for Charles Elsey at Thirsk in 1947 or 1948. No winners at Thirsk at all in 1947. Only four 2 day meetings at Thirsk each season in those days.
DL Jones winners at Thirsk in 1948:
Sat 24th April – Sowerby H’cap – Lucky Legend 3-y-o bay gelding Trainer: Dutton (Malton), Owner: Mrs GM Morrell.
Sat 2nd October – New Buildings H’cap – Lucky Legend 3-y-o bay gelding Trainer: Dutton (Malton) Owner: Mrs GM Morrell.
Fri 29th October – Sessay Nursery H’cap – Atomic Peril 2-y-o Chestnut filly Trainer/Owner: M Vasey (Doncaster).....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
So, D L Jones and Monsieur Doyasbere are picture doubles.
The Forces Reunited site tells us Basil (Bill) Moore served on HMS Bruce 1947/48 and the site shows that picture.
Is Norette Moore Bill’s daughter ?
I can’t hide on the internet can I
Yes, I am. He was somewhat errant and my parents split in ’57. He emigrated to South Africa, and I’ve been trying to trace him this last 15 years or so. Finally traced a cousin this year who sent me this image a few months ago. First I’d ever seen what he looked like and then I found out he died in the late 80s (cue violins)…I’m really trying to find out if the stories he told my mum about his family owning racehorses are true (I think not).
That is disappointing ESPmadrid. Why would Bill Elsey give the picture to Thirsk unless there was a connection with the stable and the racecourse? The plot thickens!
The picture has gone viral now and has been shared onto Middleham and Malton local history groups as well as more racing groups. Now people (old stagers) are thinking it is York again.
Well if you cannot find it Norette, and it isn’t definite they would have printed this picture in the newspaper, we have a lot of Hull Daily Mail ones for events and only one was used, it might be a placed horse and the photographer thought the sailor newsworthy and they used the winner instead for instance. You could contact Chris Pitt who wrote the book “Long Time Gone” about closed racecourses, he’s an expert on the history of British racecourses and may be able to help. jockeypedia@yahoo.co.uk
I don’t know if there are any Elseys left, they might know the connection.
The local history groups might help.
Any way good luck at the library.
I am dreaming of that horse, feel I have patted it!A possible tack to take…there’s a high probability, imo, that the picture was taken by a pro photographer (no i-phones back then). If so, it might be that, like today, track photographers worked the same courses for many years, and almost certainly kept detailed records.
Timeform almost always used these guys – Alec Russell did a lot of work for them. Alec is a Yorkshireman and although he did not get into top gear until the 70s, had been into photography and racing as a kid and wrote his first racing article in 1952. Norette might find it worthwhile having a chat with Alec who’s number is listed in the Directory of the Turf as follows:
+44 (0)1653 692316
Mobile: +44 (0)7778 983350
Good luck
For those with Google Earth, zoom in on Thirsk racecourse paddocks and have a look at the several ‘panoramio’ photos taken (the little boxes sprinkled on the satellite image
There’s certainly a similarity to Norette’s photo but the problem I have is that the paddocks being NNW/NW of the trees means the shadows (my solar obsession) are in the wrong place; if Thirsk they would cast on the left side
York’s paddock facing SW is a perfect fit for the shadows cast on a mid-summer afternoon
Could the Thirsk connection be that the owner was a big-wig there and wanted to celebrate a memorable win at York by having a photo hung at ‘his’ course?
Drone, I’m not sure if this will help on the solar/shadows aspect, but at the link below you’ll find an aerial pic of York racecourse taken on August 18th 1947. Register on the site (it’s free, and fascinating) and that allows you to zoom. The arboreal layout might offer some clues.
http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw009386?search=york%20racecourse&ref=11
Norrette; I can for the photo to be put in a racing club newsletter that Chris is involved with; if you don’t want me to do so let me know .
It would be good to put it into a newsletter – but hold back until I find out on Thursday – the newsletter could still use it, but with any info I find.
In the bottom right corner is an imprint reading ‘Northern Echo …’ then something afterwards which I can’t make out. So I presumed that the pic was seen in the paper and they requested a copy afterwards.
” title=”Imprint”>It would be good to put it into a newsletter – but hold back until I find out on Thursday – the newsletter could still use it, but with any info I find.
In the bottom right corner is an imprint reading ‘Northern Echo …’ then something afterwards which I can’t make out. So I presumed that the pic was seen in the paper and they requested a copy afterwards.
” title=”Imprint”>I think it simply reads Photograph or Photography after Northern Echo Norette.
I have found what I consider a better image of jockey Davy Jones (Not the Monkees one, which would have been a lot easier) and will try to get it posted along with your original photo for comparison shortly.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
[/quote]
Jockey Davy Jones for comparison:-
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Jockey Davy Jones for comparison:-
Sorry Steve, just wanted to have the two faces on one page without needing to scroll.
…Think that’s conclusive.
Value Is EverythingYork’s paddock facing SW is a perfect fit for the shadows cast on a mid-summer afternoon
Back to York then. The way people are generally standing around in the paddock might suggest the photo was taken before the race rather than after it, so may not actually be the winner of a race.
DL Jones did have a couple of rides on 2-y-o Chestnut colts for CF Elsey at York in 1948. Boned Turkey finished last of 11 runners in the Leyburn Maiden Stakes on Wed 6th October and Midway finished 11th of 16 in the Askham Maiden Stakes the following day.
His only winner at York in 1947 or 1948 was in the 1948 Zetland Stakes (Tue 25th May) on Semperatus, a 2-y-o bay colt Trained by Dutton (Malton) Owned by Mrs JE Coles.
....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
Did Davey Jones ride Nearsula in the Thirsk Classic Trial?
Colours could be of William Humble. That owner’s Charles Elsey trained 2000 Guineas winner Nearsula had similar colours (although pictures I’ve seen also had armlets). Nearsula won the Thirsk Classic Trial by 6 lengths, but that was in 1953. Wondered if other Elsey Classic contenders ran there?Would “William Humble” be Willam Humble Ward (2nd Lord Dudley)?
Value Is EverythingJust had another long look at the picture…….
Could it be October? The trees are planes and they still have their leaves in November at the Cenotaph. The shadows are long, which if it is in the summer, it would be one of the later races on the card. However the horse has a summer coat and is slightly sweated up, but I agree the nostrils are not extended, this horse hasn’t even cantered down.
If it isn’t a “winner” then it might just be a batch taken on that day and may not have appeared in the paper.
If our “informant” about Thirsk is not mistaken and the Thirsk/Elsey connection is not a red herring, then would contacting Thirsk racecourse or an Elsey descendent be likely course of action?Back to York then. The way people are generally standing around in the paddock might suggest the photo was taken before the race rather than after it, so may not actually be the winner of a race.
How often have you seen someone other than stable staff leading a horse around the paddock or out onto the track? It doesn’t happen, there are no other horses in view going around the paddock and there are people in the way.
Horses are frequently led in after a race though by owners etc, particularly winners.
It looks like it’s being taken to the unsaddling enclosure to me which used to be around the back at York if it is York.
Yes, I am. He was somewhat errant and my parents split in ’57. He emigrated to South Africa, and I’ve been trying to trace him this last 15 years or so. Finally traced a cousin this year who sent me this image a few months ago. First I’d ever seen what he looked like and then I found out he died in the late 80s (cue violins)…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.