Historical photo – any ideas?

[Norrette]

Dear all,

I’m a newbie here, and would love to know more about this photograph. It’s from the Northern Echo and was taken in either 1947 or 1948 (I know this as the sailor was only in HMS Bruce at this time.)

Have asked the newspaper but they were no help. I wonder if anyone here has any idea of the following:

Racecourse
Jockey
Horse
Trainer
Flat or jumps

or any other information that might help me find out more about the rider and the horse. The sailor’s name is Moore. His father/grandfather were involved in racing (but that’s all I know)

Any help is much appreciated.

Norrette

[moehat]

Have copied the photo; when we go back to Middleham in a few weeks time I’ll show the photo to a few people who might have an idea about who and where it is.

[Drone]

The jockey is reminiscent of both Gordon Richards and Charlie Smirke

[yeats]

Drone wrote:

The jockey is reminiscent of both Gordon Richards and Charlie Smirke

It doesn’t look anything like Gordon Richards to me Drone – Don’t recall what Smirke looked like.

It resembles Scobie Breasley to me but the date of the photo would put his age at only 33/34. Does the jockey look older than that?

[TheBluesBrother]

I agree with Yeats, it’s Scobie Breasley…

The horse Sailor’s Guide

Was the date of the newspaper article correct?

[Venusian]

The jockey could well be Scobie Breasley, the nose looks right anyway, but certainly not Gordon Richards or Charlie Smirke, nothing like them. I wouldn’t worry too much about the age, people seemed to look older in those days, at least to modern eyes.

Sailor’s Guide, not to be confused with the outstanding Australian horse of the same name, went to stud and sired a few winners, mainly point-to-pointers, and sports horses.

Incidentally, his dam Choclo is the great granddam of the 1982 Grand National winner Grittar, so that makes Sailor’s Guide Grittar’s great uncle!

[apracing]

I find it hard to believe that was taken in 1947/8. The boy to the right of the horse is far too well dressed for a lad of his age in that time of clothing rationing. Likewise the woman following the horse – the style of her dress and shoes are nothing like those that appear in photos of that time. And lastly, there are men in that picture not wearing a hat, which would have been almost unthinkable in the late 40’s – just look at any picture of a football crowd from that date.

I’d say this picture was taken in the mid to late 50’s, maybe even as late as 1960.

[Venusian]

apracing wrote:

I’d say this picture was taken in the mid to late 50’s, maybe even as late as 1960.

But the original poster states that it has to be 1947 or 1948.

[Venusian]

Looking at the picture again, it looks like the horse might be being lead out before a race – it’s clearly high summer but the horse doesn’t seem to be sweating.

Anyway, regardless of whether it’s before or after a race, if it’s in the Northern Echo then it quite likely could have been taken on one of the big northern race days, say, Northumberland Plate, Ebor Handicap or Lancashire Oaks day.

[moehat]

Do the trees in the background look like what used to be the pre parade ring at York?

[Norrette]

Some smashing answers here, plenty for me to go on for a start. The boy sailor was 16/7 years old and HMS Bruce was only for boy sailors – he was born in early 1931, so it has to be the years I mentioned. Also his navy record shows he could only have worn that uniform in those years. I’d go for high summer 1947.

I’ll take a look at some pics of Scobie and see if I can find a match – also for where and when. The sailor was born and lived in Hull, and HMS Bruce was near Fife in Scotland (a shore base).

Thanks so much for your help – I’m sure we’ll crack it between us!

Norrette

[moehat]

There are still Moores training in the north; they might be worth contacting.

[Drone]

Tried to upload photos of Richards, Smirke and Breasley but failed. Still think it could be one of the former two

[Crepello1957]

I also think it’s York, near the old pre parade ring, and I think the horse is a filly rather than a colt. Look at the head and ears. It could be Yorkshire Oaks day.
Also I disagree that it is later than 1948. The woman is wearing a 1940s suit the dresses would have been longer, patterned and fuller skirted in the 1950s and early 1960s.

[Crepello1957]

It could be Kiowa who won the Acomb Stakes in 1948. She was a chestnut.
Might be Woodflower who won the Lowther in 1947, but she was brown and this filly looks chestnut, but sometimes black and white pictures deceive. Woodflower was bred at Sledmere, was she raced by Sykes? What were his racing colours like?
It isn’t Shard Bridge the 1948 Lowther winner as she didn’t have white feet.
Interestingly in this case the 1948 Nunthorpe was won by a filly Careless Nora and the 1947 Ebor was won by a filly, Procne, but it cannot be her as she has no blaze.

[Norrette]

Great stuff from the new posters. Sledmere rings a bell with some of the census stuff I found for Moore’s in that area. But none of it confirmed as being my family as such.

I too was worried about the fashion, but this wee film helps confirm the dates must be good: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/york-races

I have some doubts about Scobie as his face seems a bit longer and according to this website he didn’t race in the UK till 1950 http://www.sahof.org.au/hall-of-fame/member-profile/?memberID=19&memberType=legends

Crepello, I’ll continue to research your leads. Moehat, I’m reluctant to contact the Moores as it might be that the sailor was telling fibs about his family’s racing involvement

Thanks all for your amazing knowledge, I will get back to you

[moehat]

You could always be economical with the truth and say you just wanted to find out the name of the horse.

[Author]

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