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If Denman was in other hands would we think any less or more of Denman??
From what i’ve seen so far, I’d certainly still have him as a 2-1 poke for GC if he was with Hen or in anyone else’s hands
Hen’s tack sale wasn’t specifically because she wanted to downsize. She is, by her own admission, an avid collecter of racing tack ~ a shopaholic if you like. The vast majority of the lots she sold were unused and still wrapped in plastic. On the other hand, she has converted to using plastic obstacles for schooling (they’re actually very impressive, which I wouldn’t have expected, still remembering the plastic obsatcles at Lingfield and Southwell) which meant she sold off a lot of her old schooling hurdles/fences.
Charlie D
Salute is by far and away the stable star for Pat Murphy without APs support he would be struggling even more than he does.The flat record reads
2007 5 wins salute had 3 and greenwood just the12006 4 wins from 107 runners
salute had 3 wins and again greenwood just the 12005 2 wins from 51 runners
salute won 1 and greenwood won 1Ive backed Salute a few times but a stable I normally lay runners from Pat’s yard providing they are short enough.
Would not another trainer such as Gary Moore not have done as good or not even better with Salute?
With reference to Hen Knight her first winner was Karshi for owner ‘Spam’ Vestey who is worth around 700 million.
Spam aka Lord Vestey is chairman of Cheltenham racecourse and married Hens sister Celia.
He also fulfills the role of Master of the HorseThe family were close friends of the late Queen Mother.
Hen was teaching for a short while but her father was a farmer who owned a lot of land.
They were both debutantes and Celia is godmother to Prince Harry.
No shortage of money within this family!ps
In a recent royal occasion Lord Vestey was wearing so much braid on his uniform he was accused in the Guardian of raiding the rope store at Chatham dockyard.Gary Moore is like most, a capable trainer and with better horse, like most, he would probably do better than he currently does
Why can’t you see it is the stock that makes Nicholls what he is, it is the stock that makes AoB what he is, it the Stock that makes P Murphy what he is, it is the stock that makes Hen knight what she is and so on
All these people do is nurture the RAW ability that exists in each horse and not one of em could turn a Turpin Green into a GC winner imo, but all em could probably do it with a Denman, KS, Exotic Dancer
With reference to Hen Knight her first winner was Karshi for owner ‘Spam’ Vestey who is worth around 700 million.
Whose name, of course, arises because he is always touting his tipping line around various internet forums
Karshi wasn’t Hen’s first winner by a long chalk. Her first winner under rules was a horse called The Grey Gunner back in August 1989.
A hat trick at Wincanton on Saturday should have silenced the critics. (I still can’t beleive Harris Bay was thrown in a hurdles race I got 7/1 ante post – what a steal on its chase form) I think Jim Lewis’s biggest gripe with Hen is that she wasn’t finding enough good horses for him and that Nicholls was more than capable of doing this. A little bit harsh I feel when she brought on a multiple Gold Cup winner for him plus numerous other half decent horses. Got to say I think its a question of greed and going with the best in terms of number of horses and winners.
Bit like chosing Man United over Aston Villa would be a comparison?
Why can’t you see it is the stock that makes Nicholls what he is, it is the stock that makes AoB what he is, it the Stock that makes P Murphy what he is, it is the stock that makes Hen knight what she is and so on
This is way too dismissive
To take an example of two succesful trainers who had entirely different methods and compare and contrast their results with "stock"
M Pipe and H Knight
give them both a very promising young potential chaser and they would have been handled in entirely different ways with entirely different results. I am not saying that one way is better than the other (although i would have a preference)
and look at how many father/son operations have fallen apart (or improved in McCains case)
Hen’s tack sale wasn’t specifically because she wanted to downsize. She is, by her own admission, an avid collecter of racing tack ~ a shopaholic if you like. The vast majority of the lots she sold were unused and still wrapped in plastic.
Ah. Noted.
On the other hand, she has converted to using plastic obstacles for schooling (they’re actually very impressive, which I wouldn’t have expected, still remembering the plastic obsatcles at Lingfield and Southwell) which meant she sold off a lot of her old schooling hurdles/fences.
Not a job-lot of the old Radiators From Space of the aforementioned two venues, then! I wonder where they’ll have got those from – my first thought was Watt Fences (as in the company owned by trainers Sharon and Bill Watt, and used by numerous big names), but Hen’s name is noticeably absent from the list of their clients.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Charlie D
When Paul and Bridget Nicholls started out training they had just 15 horses mainly out casts from other stables. Although Paul Nicholls was a jockey his father was a policeman so he was not handed down the family stables, or had come from a family associated with horse racing.Rory
Sorry I meant add that the first Cheltenham winner.
That was Karshi who won the 1997 Stayers Hurdle
I agree with you in that the first winner under NH rules was Matt Murphy at Towcester.david brady,
Sorry but not a member of any other racing sites.
Never even posted once on the betfair forum. Although there someone that posts there under a name close to mine.Rory
Sorry I meant add that the first Cheltenham winner.
That was Karshi who won the 1997 Stayers Hurdle
I agree with you in that the first winner under NH rules was Matt Murphy at Towcester.We should try again Seagull! The Grey Gunner was her first winner as a licenced trainer but the first winner she sent out under NH rules, as you say, was Matt Murphy when she was operating under permit.
Not a job-lot of the old Radiators From Space of the aforementioned two venues, then! I wonder where they’ll have got those from – my first thought was Watt Fences (as in the company owned by trainers Sharon and Bill Watt, and used by numerous big names), but Hen’s name is noticeably absent from the list of their clients.gc
I believe she got hers from Richmark Services which is based in North Yorkshire and run by Sarah Richardson.
I too have had horses with Hen for about 10 years now. I think she’s a very good trainer of quality horses. If, however, as has been unfortunately my experience (I’ve always seen myself as the antithesis of "Lucky Jim"), your horse isn’t top class, she’s not the sort of trainer who is going to spend hours going through the Racing Calendar to dig out just the right race which your horse is capable of winning – but to be fair to her, if your horse isn’t good enough, she will tell you and encourage you to sell it. Yes, as others have posted, she’s not the right trainer if you want your horse to be campaigned aggressively or win handicap hurdles but everyone knows that so you would be foolish to send your horse to her if that’s what you are looking for.
I’m not someone who knows much about horses as animals so when I chose a trainer, I wanted someone I could trust as otherwise I could have easily been ripped off. Hen fits that bill as she is totally straight and there is a great atmosphere at the stables. Having said all that, and bearing in mind AP’s separate thread showing his prizemoney return, it’s a very expensive hobby and I’m not sure I will carry on that much longer. Most of the young good horses which won on Saturday have been bought by very rich men and the chances of picking up a top quality jumper at an affordable price are increasingly slim.
I’m actually feeling a bit miffed at the moment as Nacarat’s owner offered me 1/2 of the horse when he bought him from France (at a reasonable price) and, after much thought, I eventually said no!
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Imo, training isn’t just about getting horses fit and teaching them to jump, but also depends a great deal on placing them properly to fulfil their potential.
Though she has been endlessly criticised for her placing of Best Mate, the fact remains that the horse stayed sound enough to win 3 Gold Cups, a rare enough feat in itself, and not one that would have been necessarily replicated in many other yards.
Her placing of her better horses returns a strike rate comparable with that of larger operations, yet still her charges have a longevity they probably wouldn’t achieve elsewhere. Still treats horses as horses too, and would never have become embroiled in the Champion Trainer fiasco we saw a couple of seasons ago, even if she had the ammunition.
Speaking as a punter, she is fairly straightforward to read as well, which can make quite a of difference in a game where you often have to second-guess the subterfuge, and though she will never be a ‘winner factory’ you usually know here you are when you put your money down.
All in all, she’ll do nicely for me, though I can’t help wondering what would be the motivation for starting such a thread as this one?Apparently Best mate was a fraud though, not my words reet and certainly something I wouldn’ agree with either.
JohnJ
Though she has been endlessly criticised for her placing of Best Mate, the fact remains that the horse stayed sound enough to win 3 Gold Cups, a rare enough feat in itself, and not one that would have been necessarily replicated in many other yards.
Proof that you can’t keep everyone happy all of the time – not content with having a 3-time Gold Cup winner with a reliable tendency to win races and thus land bets, the purists then want the horse to prove he’s better than Arkle / Champion The Wonder Horse / Pegasus as well.
Admittedly the nature of his campaign could be frustrating to the average racing fan – I’ll not deny it did annoy me a couple of times because seeing what the horse was truly capable of in handicaps and races he didn’t contest, different courses and going etc etc was my only interest in the situation given that I’m not someone who regularly backs horses – you can’t blame her for being true to the horse and then the owner for aiming to win the races that mattered most.
It’s a terrible shame that despite her careful handling of the horse, he didn’t get to have the retirement he deserved, but at least he was never overfaced as he may have been in other stables as you say RH.
think as well that, with so many stables being laid low for a lot of the season with a virus from time to time it’s not a bad idea to spead your horses around – by the way does anyone know if Henrietta Knight has a horsebox with the registration B2 HEN because my partner saw one parked up in Bamburgh today; he wondered if it was on it’s way to Musselborough…
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