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What could make a big difference is teaching him to settle so that he can be dropped out and the pressure up front is off his jumping.
I’d say it is usually the opposite. Horses dropped out have more pressure on their jumping.
On softer ground, yes.
Is BDM jumping the ditch at Sandown there ? I’ve seen several horses jump it like that.
If you watch the race, BDM takes off half a stride further away than ideal, really picks the front legs up to clear it by miles and they’re on the way down slightly earlier than normal. It’s the open ditch on the first circuit :
http://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/video/20160206/2572134/15309748
Mr steeplechasing
Exactly – we all have opinions, but I would far rather read the thoughts and details of someone who has a real passion for studying individual horses, whether I agree or disagree, than read generic, boring, sweeping statements that tell me nothing and don’t make think/change my opinion.
Mr steeplechasing
Exactly – we all have opinions, but I would far rather read the thoughts and details of someone who has a real passion for studying individual horses, whether I agree or disagree, than read generic, boring, sweeping statements that tell me nothing and don’t make think/change my opinion.
Well said Charlie,I am a great fan of those who can use Foresight a very rare attribute as we can all use hindsight which is crucial too…Anyway Joe,what do you think about Petit Mouchoirs jumping ability…that one will test you Sir.
PM showed fine technique last time, Gord which should have done his confidence good after taking off a stride too early 3 out at Newcastle where he didn’t hurdle as well, arguably because of early restraint.
If he gets another 10% improvement on his jumping going into the CH there won’t be a better hurdler in the field. Key with them, as you know, is getting those front legs back on the ground as quickly as possible and he does that very well, helped by that low plane typical of all top hurdlers. Downside is you only need to be half a stride out with that technique and you’re through the top bar. Confidence matters a lot with such types though and he should hopefully be spot on next time.
Looking back at last time, he left the lot for dead turning in. Hard to believe they all ran lacklustre. He could run a very big race in the Champion Hurdle.
PM showed fine technique last time, Gord which should have done his confidence good after taking off a stride too early 3 out at Newcastle where he didn’t hurdle as well, arguably because of early restraint.
If he gets another 10% improvement on his jumping going into the CH there won’t be a better hurdler in the field. Key with them, as you know, is getting those front legs back on the ground as quickly as possible and he does that very well, helped by that low plane typical of all top hurdlers. Downside is you only need to be half a stride out with that technique and you’re through the top bar. Confidence matters a lot with such types though and he should hopefully be spot on next time.
Looking back at last time, he left the lot for dead turning in. Hard to believe they all ran lacklustre. He could run a very big race in the Champion Hurdle.
Those were the words I was looking for Joe….Anyone who cant see you have a natural ability for assessing a horses jumping technique obviously cant tell a good jumper from a bad one themselves..Cheers.
Mark, they’re not perfect examples but the best I could find after a fair bit of hunting around. The perspective looks different on them (the Thistlecrack one is on a closer zoom which compresses the foreground) but I think they are at about the same point in trajectory (though I’m not going to argue about it).
BDM looks as though he’s stood off but I don’t believe he has (look how close to the fence his back legs appear to be) His jumping style in having to raise his front legs higher gives the impression he has stood off.
Anyway, I went searching after watching him jump a few times on video. I know what I was seeing on video – he has an awkward way of coming up and I had to watch a few times to pin down what he was doing. Anyway, the still picture confirmed it in my mind and I’ll settle for that. Like witnesses at any incident many people watching the same thing see it differently.
I’m in danger of derailing the thread now (with a subject in which many have no interest) and I don’t believe I can usefully add anything more other than, as ever, the courtesy of answering direct questions. With that in mind – the comparison with Thistecrack; in trying to illustrate what a horse is doing ‘wrong’, what better example could be used than a classic example?
It may be interesting to compare the perfect jumper Thistlecrack with Bristol De Mai, Joe; but nothing is going to compare well to Thistlecrack. The only other horse to compare BDM with is one who’s photographed right above the obstacle – compared to BDM’s (if you look at MarkTT’s video, shows it perfectly) is taken a fair bit before the fence, which is an open ditch. Apart from being a little closer to each other than what I’d consider perfect, BDM’s legs are in the normal reaching position for a horse who’s in mid-flight after standing off at an open ditch. Commentator even enthused about how BDM jumped the fence.
Think you do come up with some good and interesting jumping theories, Joe. We disagree on this one. Anyway, thanks for explaining your thoughts.
Value Is EverythingPM showed fine technique last time, Gord which should have done his confidence good after taking off a stride too early 3 out at Newcastle where he didn’t hurdle as well, arguably because of early restraint.
If he gets another 10% improvement on his jumping going into the CH there won’t be a better hurdler in the field. Key with them, as you know, is getting those front legs back on the ground as quickly as possible and he does that very well, helped by that low plane typical of all top hurdlers. Downside is you only need to be half a stride out with that technique and you’re through the top bar. Confidence matters a lot with such types though and he should hopefully be spot on next time.
Looking back at last time, he left the lot for dead turning in. Hard to believe they all ran lacklustre. He could run a very big race in the Champion Hurdle.
I enjoyed reading your posts Joe, you’ve been spot on enough times to be taken seriously when
you spot a problem, or idiosyncrasy in a horses jumping. You mention that the key with hurdlers
is….
“getting those front legs back on the ground as quickly as possible and he does that very well, helped by that low plane typical of all top hurdlers. Downside is you only need to be half a stride out with that technique and you’re through the top bar”It very much puts me in mind of Black Hercules last year. TAPK was red hot on him last year, but I did
post that my heart was in my mouth when I watched him. He jumped at such pace, and didn’t leave any even
the slightest room for a mistake, I was always just waiting for him to come crashing down. He did at Navan,
just before the festival, but TAPK came up trumps when BH broke my heart and stuffed Bristol De Mai in
the JLT, I would have had one of my best returns at the Festival if BDM had taken that one.I, along with many others, really fancied him for the Peter Marsh Chase. I did post about his jumping…
“I think when he’s in a rhythm he’s going to be
hard to peg back, he does occasionally get one or two wrong and loses momentum, but
with a clear jumping round I think this is his for the winning”I can’t see anything coming near Thistlecrack if he stands up, and I think he will, but I
reckon BDM, faults and all, is improving and I’ve taken some of the 20s e/w. I also took
Djakadam at 14/1 e/w (mentioned in the ante post thread) and that will do for me. I’ll be
there on the day, and will have a bet on course, but probably for one of those three.I know you’re a Thistlecrack fan Joe, but are you going to have an interest in your old
pal Cue Card?Hi Graham, thanks for that.
I’ve had my biggest bet of the season on Tizz to win the Gold Cup so Cue Card is ‘in the team’ and I think he’ll run a much bigger race than some are forecasting. Many seem to be eager to write him off on age but a trip is what he wants and we’ll see a different horse in March.
But I think too that some of the focus has gone off Thistlecrack as people kind of get used to him and seek better value. As you say, if he stands up he should win. Saturday will answer the sole remaining question – his stamina. Despite being over a shade short of the GC trip, The Cotswold has been a brutal test these past two years. In fact, I think in winning it Smad Place and Many Clouds could well have left their Gold Cup chances in the January mud. I hope that doesn’t happen with Thistlecrack.
Smad Place will go all out to test Thistlecrack’s staying power and his jumping ability up front (although I don’t expect Scu to take him on early). If he skates home on Saturday as I expect him to, the Gold Cup is over bar a fall and I’d expect to see some more defectors to the Ryanair.
If something goes wrong on Saturday, Smad Place is the one to pick up the pieces. This will be his Gold Cup, especially if the going turns out as Claisse forecasts – soft. 5s or better should be an EW bet to nowt.
It very much puts me in mind of Black Hercules last year. TAPK was red hot on him last year, but I did
post that my heart was in my mouth when I watched him. He jumped at such pace, and didn’t leave any even
the slightest room for a mistake, I was always just waiting for him to come crashing down. He did at Navan,
just before the festival, but TAPK came up trumps when BH broke my heart and stuffed Bristol De Mai in
the JLT, I would have had one of my best returns at the Festival if BDM had taken that one.Big G you are bang on there with your comments regarding this years Ryanair Winner..If you watch his Warwick run again he bloody hurdles his fences missing the tops of the brush by mm’s..He’s a gross beast of a horse and it wont be long before connections say he’s still 20kg’s over his optimum weight…Or any excuse why he’s run like a pig all season.
nice pic of BDM jumping taken from the sporting life website.. legs tucked in a bit more orthodox
http://e1.365dm.com/17/01/768×576/skysports-bristol-de-mai-daryl-jacob-peter-marsh-chase_3874919.jpg?20170121160052It very much puts me in mind of Black Hercules last year. TAPK was red hot on him last year, but I did
post that my heart was in my mouth when I watched him. He jumped at such pace, and didn’t leave any even
the slightest room for a mistake, I was always just waiting for him to come crashing down. He did at Navan,
just before the festival, but TAPK came up trumps when BH broke my heart and stuffed Bristol De Mai in
the JLT, I would have had one of my best returns at the Festival if BDM had taken that one.Big G you are bang on there with your comments regarding this years Ryanair Winner..If you watch his Warwick run again he bloody hurdles his fences missing the tops of the brush by mm’s..He’s a gross beast of a horse and it wont be long before connections say he’s still 20kg’s over his optimum weight…Or any excuse why he’s run like a pig all season.
I think it was after the Warwick run TAPK that I commented that he had my heart in my mouth watching
him, he left no leeway and I worried a bit about him, but you got it right for Cheltenham, he won that
one nicely. If he produces his Festival form from last year, you could be right and 16/1 for the Ryanair
looks well worth a punt, so I’ve had oneTAPK I think SMAD PLACE is a very decent horse on his day, he won’t beat Thistlecrack
today, or at the Gold Cup, and I’m probably being a bit over hopeful, but I I had a
free bet from Bet365, so I’ve stuck it e/w on Smad Place at 50/1 in the gc. I hope he
just runs a good race today and they consider letting him take his place.
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