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Doesn’t matter what I’m trying to say because however I explain it, it seems to go straight over the top of your head.
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Quote: from clivex on 1:59 pm on June 23, 2006[br]Does it really matter if he finishes 7th or 13th? Well beaten horses can finish anywhere
<br>That’s the problem, though, clivex: High Action wasn’t "well beaten" at all. The horse, with an official rating of just 101 and an average RPR over his previous ten runs of 98.1, was beaten just seven lengths and a head.
True, the form of the Gold Cup has next to no value for any other race but surely anyone trying to place the field in a historical context will see that this year’s renewal was a weak one: the first two have reproduced their mile and a half form with one another, the third is a seven year old, probably on the wane, and the fifth ran below form. Guadalajara was bumped, or would have finished closer, while the rest can be classified as your tailed-off also rans.
While all credit must go to the Ballydoyle team for getting Yeats to post fit and healthy enough to win one of the most prestigious races of them all (even if the Gold Cup is a shadow of its former self), the form doesn’t look great and Yeats can only be rated an average Gold Cup winner, at best. He’s clearly good enough to wipe all before him in the staying division at the moment but that’s purely down to the lack of any viable opposition over extreme trips, as High Action’s final position illustrates.
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<br>That’s the problem, though, clivex: High Action wasn’t "well beaten" at all. The horse, with an official rating of just 101 and an average RPR over his previous ten runs of 98.1, was beaten just seven lengths and a head.
True, the form of the Gold Cup has next to no value for any other race but surely anyone trying to place the field in a historical context will see that this year’s renewal was a weak one: the first two have reproduced their mile and a half form with one another, the third is a seven year old, probably on the wane, and the fifth ran below form. Guadalajara was bumped, or would have finished closer, while the rest can be classified as your tailed-off also rans.
While all credit must go to the Ballydoyle team for getting Yeats to post fit and healthy enough to win one of the most prestigious races of them all (even if the Gold Cup is a shadow of its former self), the form doesn’t look great and Yeats can only be rated an average Gold Cup winner, at best. He’s clearly good enough to wipe all before him in the staying division at the moment but that’s purely down to the lack of any viable opposition over extreme trips, as High Action’s final position illustrates.<br>
Yquem<br> While I agree that it probably wasn’t the best Gold Cup of recent years, the above is probably a little unfair on Yeats.<br> First of all, he was a very comfortable winner, and no one knows exactly how much he had left in the tank.<br> Secondly, Distinction, a close 2nd in last year’s Gold Cup, had won his previous race this year, on the wrong ground and over too short a distance, quite comfortably; hardly the sign of a horse ‘probably on the wane’.<br> And High Action, which many have used to denigrate the form, is undoubtedly a better horse over a distance of ground; his 3 attempts beyond 2 miles resulting in a win at Chester, a close 4th to Millenary in the gp2 Doncaster Cup, in which he achieved a RPR 7lbs above any previous run, and of course, his Gold Cup 4th.<br> It may not all add up to top class form, but how many Gold Cups do?
Stav…
you have shown yourself up to be little more than a juvenile spammer so far. dont address me in this forum unless you have something worthwhile to say
Yq<br>Before the race i said that i thought it was a weak renewal. Certainly that was on the book. The main unknown factor was whether yeats would stay. <br>Now looking back….yeats was the absolute bet of the week (I took my chances with the Godolphn horse). To my mind, if he stayed he was clearly a class above these and was it really such long odds against AOB’s judgement being correct?<br>Now the form of the race might not be wonderful compared with previous years, but that hardly matters in this years context unless a new classier contendor is upped in distance<br>But Yeats won as he pleased. that is the real point. It was decisive and improvement after 8 months off is likely.<br>Distinction is probably the real yardstick here rather than those back in the field anyway.
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awww…reet hs put it even better than me :)
Point again is that this particular distance will bring out qualities and weaknesses in horses that will not be seen perhaps over the usual 2m staying trip. Its a one off odf course
High Action wasn’t "well beaten" at all. The horse, with an official rating of just 101 and an average RPR over his previous ten runs of 98.1, was beaten just seven lengths and a head.
<br>How much do you want?!
Is it really productive to literally compare beatings of 7 lengths with say, 10 lengths ? He stuck with the pack and pulled away. why should it have had to be more than the distance it was?
The distance will depend of course on how the race pans out and HA was coming back to the field but using his strong stamina to tsay on again (perhaps) and as so often in this race, afew leading players were perhaps not staying at all (would have to wtach it again i suppose)
But crabbing a clear winner beacuse a 80’s rated (or whatever) reasonable horse was 7 1/2 lengths behind…is a touch harsh? ;) <br>
The proximity of High Action can be explained as much by the fact that the pace was steady than that the race was particularly below-par. That’s why I wouldn’t crab the RPR’s for the way they have rated the race.
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Quote: from davidjohnson on 5:46 pm on June 24, 2006[br]The proximity of High Action can be explained as much by the fact that the pace was steady than that the race was particularly below-par.
<br>If that’s the case and he’s an out-and-out stayer, which has resulted in his best form coming at two miles and further, shouldn’t he have been swamped by the rest of the field?<br>
Quote: from yquem21 on 6:36 pm on June 24, 2006[br]
Quote: from davidjohnson on 5:46 pm on June 24, 2006[br]The proximity of High Action can be explained as much by the fact that the pace was steady than that the race was particularly below-par.
<br>If that’s the case and he’s an out-and-out stayer, which has resulted in his best form coming at two miles and further, shouldn’t he have been swamped by the rest of the field?<br>
Why, the best place to be in a steadily run race is at the front. It’s no surprise that some of them more patiently ridden couldn’t get into it.
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Quote: from davidjohnson on 7:04 pm on June 24, 2006[br]Why, the best place to be in a steadily run race is at the front.
<br>Only if a horse has a turn of foot to be able to quicken from the front. One-paced plodders need to set a stiffer pace, in order to try to draw the sting from their opponents’ superior finishing pace.
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Quote: from davidjohnson on 4:03 pm on Aug. 3, 2006[br]Interesting to note that in a truly-run race, High Action was beaten 20+ lengths.
Ignoring, of course, that today’s race was over half a mile less, and a sharper track, which wouldn’t have the slightest bearing?:biggrin:
Is it really productive to literally compare beatings of 7 lengths with say, 10 lengths ? He stuck with the pack and pulled away. why should it have had to be more than the distance it was?
As i said before. cut and paste 20 lengths :)
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How stupid of me not to notice at an earlier stage that  Yeats is on a par with Le Moss and Ardross.
;) <br>
(Edited by yquem21 at 6:45 pm on Aug. 3, 2006)
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<br> Interestingly, t/s have accorded Yeats a figure of 103 today, as opposed to 109 at Ascot.
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