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Don Poli, Outlander and the Grand National
Smith has put Outlander up 3 lbs and Don Poli up 2 lbs. In isolation that’s not a major issue for me. The issue I have is that for years now Smith has condensed the handicap in the Grand National to encourage the horses near the head of the weights to run. This is completely ludicrous imo but it’s what has been done. He has abandoned that approach this year and actually raised the ratings of these to horses – where is the consistency? The condensing of the Grand National weights is totally crazy for me and I don’t know how they get away with it.What habndicap mark did you expect Don Poli to get, THM?
Don Poli has not been “put up”, his handicap mark in Britain is 165 and HAS been “condensed” down to 163. So what, if the Irish handicapper rates Don Poli on 161, does not mean Don Poli has been put up if running on a BRITISH mark of 163. It’s a different scale.
Don Poli recieved 5 lbs and beat Many Clouds 4 lengths in December 2015. So on form Don Poli is a 1 lb worse horse than Many Clouds.
End of that season Many Clouds handicap mark was “condensed” slightly down to a mark of 165 for the Grand National.
imo Don Poli is as good now as he was when taking on Many Clouds. Just because a horse doesn’t win race/s doesn’t mean it should be dropped, especially when running in Grade 1’s. So when Many Clouds ran off 165 in the Grand National, I was expecting Don Poli to get 164 this year (he’s got 163)… And just as Many Couds was well handicapped on his mark, so too is Don Poli this time.
Empire Of Dirt was 3/4 length in front of Don Poli in the Irish Gold Cup and rightly gets 1 lb more than his owner/stable companion.
Outlander beat Don Poli 2 1/4 lengths in the Lexus and gets 3 lbs more. Arguably should’ve been 2, but that’s just a pound.O’Leary has not got a clue when it comes to handicapping horses. Or may be he just comes out with these things to put pressure on the handicapper for future Grand Nationals?
GT, it’s not about what rating I think Don Poli should have got, as I said I don’t think the mark he has received is a major issue. “It’s a different scale” you say. There is no scale, that is the problem.
Surely I am not alone in finding this whole debacle very unsatisfactory. Does a horse suddenly become better or worse depending whether it runs in the UK or Ireland?
Smith has a completely different set of ratings for Irish horses to what the Irish handicappers have, yet repeatedly states that Noel O’Brien is an excellent handicapper, which is a statement he cannot stand by given he says they spend 18 hours a week compiling their own ratings for Irish horses.
It happens every year with Cheltenham and Aintree but this year there seems to be more high profile cases. The two sets of handicappers need to have a sit down and come up with a proper ‘scale’, whereby everybody knows where they stand, because at the moment nobody has a clue what sort of rating a horse will get until Smith produces a figure. That’s not good for owners, trainers, or punters.
If Don Poli’s rating is fine, what are you complaining about?
Phil Smith’s ratings seem pretty straight forward to me.
seems it’s the Irish handicapper’s problem.Value Is EverythingTold you Don Poli was overrated, ginger even the owner agrees………
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Don Poli, Outlander and the Grand National
Smith has put Outlander up 3 lbs and Don Poli up 2 lbs. In isolation that’s not a major issue for me. The issue I have is that for years now Smith has condensed the handicap in the Grand National to encourage the horses near the head of the weights to run. This is completely ludicrous imo but it’s what has been done. He has abandoned that approach this year and actually raised the ratings of these to horses – where is the consistency? The condensing of the Grand National weights is totally crazy for me and I don’t know how they get away with it.What habndicap mark did you expect Don Poli to get, THM?
Don Poli has not been “put up”, his handicap mark in Britain is 165 and HAS been “condensed” down to 163. So what, if the Irish handicapper rates Don Poli on 161, does not mean Don Poli has been put up if running on a BRITISH mark of 163. It’s a different scale.
Don Poli recieved 5 lbs and beat Many Clouds 4 lengths in December 2015. So on form Don Poli is a 1 lb worse horse than Many Clouds.
End of that season Many Clouds handicap mark was “condensed” slightly down to a mark of 165 for the Grand National.
imo Don Poli is as good now as he was when taking on Many Clouds. Just because a horse doesn’t win race/s doesn’t mean it should be dropped, especially when running in Grade 1’s. So when Many Clouds ran off 165 in the Grand National, I was expecting Don Poli to get 164 this year (he’s got 163)… And just as Many Couds was well handicapped on his mark, so too is Don Poli this time.
Empire Of Dirt was 3/4 length in front of Don Poli in the Irish Gold Cup and rightly gets 1 lb more than his owner/stable companion.
Outlander beat Don Poli 2 1/4 lengths in the Lexus and gets 3 lbs more. Arguably should’ve been 2, but that’s just a pound.O’Leary has not got a clue when it comes to handicapping horses. Or may be he just comes out with these things to put pressure on the handicapper for future Grand Nationals?
GT, it’s not about what rating I think Don Poli should have got, as I said I don’t think the mark he has received is a major issue. “It’s a different scale” you say. There is no scale, that is the problem.
Surely I am not alone in finding this whole debacle very unsatisfactory. Does a horse suddenly become better or worse depending whether it runs in the UK or Ireland?
Smith has a completely different set of ratings for Irish horses to what the Irish handicappers have, yet repeatedly states that Noel O’Brien is an excellent handicapper, which is a statement he cannot stand by given he says they spend 18 hours a week compiling their own ratings for Irish horses.
It happens every year with Cheltenham and Aintree but this year there seems to be more high profile cases. The two sets of handicappers need to have a sit down and come up with a proper ‘scale’, whereby everybody knows where they stand, because at the moment nobody has a clue what sort of rating a horse will get until Smith produces a figure. That’s not good for owners, trainers, or punters.
If Don Poli’s rating is fine, what are you complaining about?
Phil Smith’s ratings seem pretty straight forward to me.
seems it’s the Irish handicapper’s problem.GT, I’m not going to type it all again. I’ve made all the points I want to make in earlier posts on this thread.
Think Smith needed to add another stone to a few of these Irish handicappers if this week is anything to go by
Has O’Leary said anything today about how lenient Phil Smith is with Irish handicappers? :lol:
Value Is EverythingHow petty and ridiculous do the O’Leary look now. Throughout this saga Phil smith has clearly shown how he has arrived at the figures especially in the national. He has pointed out,several time, how successful Irish trainers are in Britain and of course now the likes of presenting Percy make a mockery of the O’Leary claim. The aren’t,in my opinion,nice people anyway as shown by their treatment of their Ryanair staff and I so enjoyed the brilliant un de seaux doing a girfuy to the O’Leary by winning the Ryanair. Funnily taking his horses out of the Mullins yard has helped him but the problems at Mullins yard,whatever they are ,have helped. I’m looking forward to the Mullins/Walsh steamroller now at punchestown and aintree. Well done Phil smith for sticking to your principals which have been spectacularly proved right.
O’Leary just won the Martin Pipe with “the worst horse I’ve owned”.
And still moaning about The Game Changer’s weight in the last.
Value Is EverythingI wonder if a few British trainers will be making the opposite point to Phil Smith?
Value Is EverythingO’Leary just won the Martin Pipe with “the worst horse I’ve owned”.
And still moaning about The Game Changer’s weight in the last.And in doing insulted 80%+ of racehorse owners in the UK and Ireland.
What did it finish in the handicaps? 7-3 to Ireland?
And they were saying Phil Smith was biased? Jeez….
O’Leary just won the Martin Pipe with “the worst horse I’ve owned”.
And still moaning about The Game Changer’s weight in the last.And in doing insulted 80%+ of racehorse owners in the UK and Ireland.
He was clearly joking. He had 3/4 horses running in Ireland today that the jugopolist would hammer.
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