- This topic has 520 replies, 60 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
On the rare occasions I go racing, I’m struck by the thought I am in somebody else’s place of employment. The jockeys, owners, trainers and the rest could carry on running the races even if no one was there (as 2020 demonstrated).
I get the sense some of the jockeys would prefer we weren’t there – they rarely make eye contact or look as though you’re anything to them. Yes, there’ll be the odd autograph but for those not well known enough it’s a walk to and from the sanctum sanctorum that is the weighing room that is done as brusquely as possible.
I realise midweek racing for them is as boring as Monday afternoons are for me in my work and I’m not sure I’d like a group of strangers gawping at me as I work but I’m not in the entertainment industry (my boss might disagree).
For jump jockeys, it’s a hard road, long days, often poor weather and the brutal reality the next ride might be their last. I don’t know how they do it, sometimes I don’t know why. They don’t deserve the abuse they get from some punter who has lost a tenner.
Their work is my entertainment – I understand that and respect it. It’s easy to retreat behind the weighing room doors but part of me says a closed world fosters closed minds. I think the problem is much more than a code of conduct on a wall – it’s about the whole life of being a jockey – their position within the sport, the relationships with owners and trainers etc.
Ginger, you say that jockeys don’t have a problem with the behaviour experienced by Frost being called “rancid”, but I can’t say we’ve heard that from many (any?) of them. We can also infer something about the level of support Frost has received from the PJA in private from the fact that their senior members had no idea at all how she was doing several days after the verdict.
With the level of “support” she has received from the professional body that is supposed to represent her interests, who needs enemies? All this talk from them about moving forward is impossible while their heads remain so firmly stuck in the sand.
From listening to Paul struthers on racing debate its clear he’s trying to balance the two opposing camps. He’s at least apologised for what happened to frost but of course has to keep it seems a hostile weighing room who don’t want rules being enforced. It’s the jockeys themselves who need to sort this. Quite simply agree that disagreements are fine but we don’t let it fester. As Ruby said just say sorry,frustration got the better of me and tomorrow’s another day. By digging in their heels the jockeys by their actions are showing exactly why this issue happened.
They don’t want to actually follow the rules we all have to live by.
So frustrating that its seems so simple to resolve this but the jockeys are he’ll bent on keeping the staus quo.
Makes you wonder if bryonys case is the tip of the iceberg and far worse has happened but folk have been too scared to speak up. The omerta in the weighing room I bet is quite frightening for a new or inexperienced rider.Anyone who hasn’t seen david dunnes post… don’t
It’s incoherent and seems to have been typed by a five year old but also makes nasty claims about ruby which is telling in itself
One of the most insightful comments there has been on the ‘rancid’ word – not a word, but a conditional legal statement, which reflects the line of argument taken by the defendant’s legal team.
https://twishort.com/lhkocIt’s a pity that all the respective parties (and I would include the racing media in this as well as the PJA and BHA) didn’t recognise this from the outset, rather than rush to fuel the flames of an already incendiary case. As a result, this is now going to be a long and very difficult road, with no ‘winners’ only ‘losers’ – and in the end it is the sport itself that will be the loser. We can see this already in the overwhelming response of passionate NH fans on the various forums. To almost a person, we have been angered, incredulous, and frankly appalled by this stuff. So much so, that, as some have said elsewhere, I’ve found myself seriously questioning my investment in this sport over the past week. For the first time in decades, I did not watch Cheltenham’s December meeting. That was my only means to protest, for watching to me is a means to condoning the sport – and particularly a style of presentation that celebrates with, and refuses to question, jockeys over whom there now sits one big question.
Like several on here, I’m not optimistic about the immediate prospects for cultural change. I am trying to work out why. In part there is a structural problem: like others, I’ve had professional experience of being in a toxic working environment, and of resolving the bullying/harassment disputes that emerge in them. Cultural change was possible in that environment – but only through staff turnover and a long process of professional mediation, which started from the position that the organisation (and its members) recognised the need for change and had a collective will to change. That collective will, to me, seems to be absent here; worse, there has been a retrenchment. The prospects for constructive change in such circumstances are not high. I also find my mind turning to reflect on the potential effects of what must be a changed dynamic in the weighing room in recent years. There have been a lot of very high profile retirements in the past few years, of people who have been around for years. In a profession where results command respect, theirs are the voices that would have counted. Is the failure to speak up and to call out in part a reflection of a vacuum in seniority and respect?
Racing post has now published an article from trainer Jo
Davis who has made public today some of the appalling treatment she has experienced from fellow trainers, a jockey, owner and media person.
Hopefully others will now feel more confident about speaking out.Marlingford,
Jockeys have said the reason why they don’t like it is because the BHA tarred everyone with the same brush by wording it as “rancid weighing room culture”. Therefore I’d have thought it stands to reason had they just said the treatment Bryony endured was rancid, the jockeys wouldn’t have a problem.Do we know if Bryony wants to hear from the PJA? tbh If I were her I wouldn’t want to hear from them after the Bass and Holmes interviews. tbh Have yet to see the Struthers / Luck interview, I’d be disappointed if he didn’t do better as have met him several times and seems a straightforward bloke. Although I didn’t really mean the PJA anyway. It was individual jockeys who may or may not have been giving Bryony more sympathy in private. We don’t know.
Value Is EverythingIn most industries if Frost found herself in a toxic working environment she could at least go and work for another company or in another location. Being a jockey is almost singularly difficult to change your circumstances in this way. I appreciate a move to another country could be an option, but would Frost get the same opportunities as she does on the Nicholls horses? I would stress I don’t think it should be up to her to move in any case though.
Agree with Titus Oates re racing needing to be very careful not to alienate the public, who are of course a significant source of its revenue. I received the latest Injured Jockeys Fund newsletter over the weekend. This is of course an amazing organisation supporting all manner of wonderful and inspiring people. But, try as I might not to, I felt slightly less positively inclined to it as a direct result of this week’s news, which is desperately sad.
GT writes:
“It was individual jockeys who may or may not have been giving Bryony more sympathy in private. We don’t know.”
It is almost certain that some do sympathise in private. I give you the Bystander Effect:
‘The bystander effect, or bystander apathy, is a social psychological theory that states that individuals are less likely to offer help to a victim when there are other people present. First proposed in 1964, much research, mostly in the lab, has focused on increasingly varied factors, such as the number of bystanders, ambiguity, group cohesiveness, and diffusion of responsibility that reinforces mutual denial…More recent studies also show that this effect can generalize to workplace settings, where subordinates often refrain from informing managers regarding ideas, concerns, and opinions.’
Hereunder is an extreme example of this phenomenon that occurred in China 10 years ago:
‘The death of Wang Yue was caused when the toddler (aged 2) was run over by two vehicles. The entire incident was caught on a video, which shows eighteen people seeing the child but refusing to help. In a November 2011 survey, a majority, 71%, thought that the people who passed the child without helping were afraid of getting into trouble themselves.’
Courtesy of Wikipedia.
Given the previously reported professional jockey population of 450 (plus 300 amateurs) it is practically inconceivable that several did not step in to ask what they could do. Discreetly, of course.
Just a thought but there’s been a lot of talk recently about mental health problems with jockeys, some of which mentions attacks on social media which is regarded as being wrong (which it is). So being verbally abused whilst riding a race or in the changing rooms by other jockeys is equally as bad. Isn’t it? Imo takes more guts to speak out about bulling than it is to bully. And going through the process of calling people out is as stressful as actually being bullied.
Thanks for your reply Ginger. We don’t know how the jockeys would have reacted had different wording been used. However, I’m very sceptical as to whether it would have led to any significant difference in how the judgement was received or Frost is treated going forward. Amidst all the moaning about the word “rancid”, there was also plenty of comment about the injustice of the decision and what a good bloke Robbie Dunne is, including by the president of the PJA.
Regardless of whether Frost actually wants to hear from the PJA, they are supposedly representing her interests (and Dunne’s). She has been through a torrid time, so I would expect them to be in contact with her. I totally agree with you that she most probably wouldn’t have much time for them at present, which would seem to back up my point about who needs enemies when you have supporters like the PJA.
Re whether she’s had jockey supporters who have spoken to her in private or indeed said nothing at all, we of course don’t know. But we do have her testimony as to how isolated she has felt.
I’ve not seen the Struthers interview, but have read a report of it. It definitely sounds like an improvement on what was said earlier in the week at least.
Panic and chaos as the last chinooks out of BHA, PJA and Racing Post offices leaving at noon, destination Woke land. Ohhh I love the sound of rota blades and panic.
Jo Davis meant well I’m sure, but saying all she has without naming a single person is not particularly helpful.
BUY THE SUN
Sadly, all I got from Jo Davis’s non-specific statement was “attention seeking.”
Unsubstantiated, non-specific, allegations might be a bit “Me Too” I suppose but I don’t think it was very helpful either.
When Bryony Frost had the courage to name a name, she set the bar anyone getting on a “Me Too” bandwagon needs to match.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"You make a good point Seasider.
The pull of “It’s none of my business” is strong, stronger when there are other bystanders who don’t step in.Tragedy is the abuse Bryony suffered should have been everyone’s business but no-one acted.
Value Is Everything“Sadly, all I got from Jo Davis’s non-specific statement was “attention seeking.””
I wouldn’t go as far as that. But she certainly held a nice catch to no avail before stepping over the boundary. And her boasting having a “handy” father and a brother “who takes no ****” was fairly pathetic.
BUY THE SUN
Having just finishing racing debate where matt was going down many alleys and I think has had jockeys telling him loads of info Kevin blakes analysis was spot on. Self policing will never work as the strong personality will dominate. Matt kept saying that there would only be a handful of jockeys around at one time but the valets and other officials must have heard what was happening but because they are probably so used to it didn’t bat an eyelid. Blake is right that the jockeys aren’t going to change so regulation properly enforced will have to happen. Just like the vast majority of folk have to deal with. So must smoke in the story.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.