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OneEye, my answer is yes. I think numerous sprinters, including Black Caviar, would have beaten Frankel if they only had to race to the 2f or 3f pole under WFA.
Thanks Presto.
I’m not so sure (which is why I made my original statement lol), the way Frankel strode away from his rivals over those first five furlongs was astounding. He had every horse in the field 15L behind him and off the bridle with three to run. It was staggering in my opinion.
Black Caviar might have been able to keep tabs perhaps, but I’m not at all confident about naming another sprinter out there who would have been able to.
Frankel v Black Caviar over six furlongs at Ascot in June or Newmarket in July. Never going to happen, but what a prospect that would be.
Black Caviar might have been able to keep tabs perhaps, but I’m not at all confident about naming another sprinter out there who would have been able to.
Overdose maybe?
If I recall his only defeat was by a horse who won the Derby.And how did the "great" Brigadier do at stud ? Without a "Derby" in your resume it is difficult to get the best mares.For many years the knock on Sadlers Wells was that he did not get a Derby winner.
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A very good win,though Frankel was not even close to 15 lengths in front when the caller said,and it is clear that the winning margin was very close to 4 lengths,honestly whoever gave the margin as 6 lengths cannot be taken seriously! And for those trying to compare the speed of a mile with the speed of a 5f or 6f race ie Black Caviar is kidding! A completely different pace,He couldnt keep up with Black Caviar over those distances.To make my point go to youtube and have a look at a horse called ‘Vo Rogue’ he was an amazing horse would lead by huge margins in mile 10f races,but back in a sprint say 6f quality sprint they would lead him easily.
I am amazed that Galileo can produce a horse with that speed.He is not normally associated with such.If the dam is responsible for the speed ,which I assume she is, then surely Galileo must have contributed something to the horse.
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Come on Ginger. She failed by a noise to give 20 lengths and a standing start to the BC classic field!You don’t think she could reel in a sprinter over a mile and two? She was known for her enormous stride and her ability to reel in the best. Just wait and see how far Frankel can race.
Andyod / Miss Woodford,
I am not comparing stamina or speed, just ability. Of course they are two different types of horse, but you can compare how good the two are in their own field.
Zenyatta had some wonderful qualities, but the level of ability she showed to win those races was not outstanding. A length win over Gio Ponti and head defeat by Blame are very good Group / Grade 1 form. But it is nowhere near the top of the mountain as far as form goes.I am talking about form, not consistency or how it looks when a horse comes from last to first, purely form.
As for Zenyatta giving the field a 20 lengths start, I suggest you go back and watch the race again. Don’t be bamboozled in to thinking she faced an impossible task from where she was. The front of that field went off at a stupidly fast pace and fell in a heap even before the home straight. So as far as the front runners go, it actually helped Zenyatta to be dropped out. You should ignore those at the front and concentrate on the gap between Zenyatta and Blame. Think of the winner being the front runner and imagine ten horses between him and Zenyatta early on; and you realise there are thousands of races each year where the same distance (between Blame and Zenyatta) was made up to win.
I am no anti-American, There have been many American horses at the top of Form Mountain, Zenyatta was not one of them. But as far as the neighbouring Consistencey Mountain is concerned, she was the greatest mountaineer.
Zenyatta ,inept ride,caught napping should have had her rolling long before that,should have won easily.
I am not normally one to say "told you so" but reading back through my marathon post of last year, I don’t think I did too badly!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
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I am not normally one to say "told you so" but reading back through my marathon post of last year, I don’t think I did too badly!
Well done Joni,
You certianly told everyone about Frankel and in a fine manner too.
Thank you
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Fast forward to Royal Ascot and say Frankel loses the St James Palace, how good a decision would it have been to bring him there?
If you had to lose a race then it would be in the Derby surely?
Now it’s clear.
WORLD DOMINATION will run the Derby while FRANKEL will take part in the St James’ Palace Stakes.
I am not normally one to say "told you so" but reading back through my marathon post of last year, I don’t think I did too badly!
Oh, can I take this opportunity to apologise please Jonibake?
I saw this thread a moment ago and thought this will be an interesting read. Then I scanned down and saw a reply from myself – I thought to myself, "I haven’t replied on here, it’s the first time I’ve seen the thread".
Then I noticed I replied in November. Please accept my sincere apologies mate, I was p!ssed then, I’m sober now
It was an excellent post, even more so after what Frankel did at the weekend.
Well done, and once again, please accept my apologies.
I am not normally one to say "told you so" but reading back through my marathon post of last year, I don’t think I did too badly!
Oh, can I take this opportunity to apologise please Jonibake?
I saw this thread a moment ago and thought this will be an interesting read. Then I scanned down and saw a reply from myself – I thought to myself, "I haven’t replied on here, it’s the first time I’ve seen the thread".
Then I noticed I replied in November. Please accept my sincere apologies mate, I was p!ssed then, I’m sober now
It was an excellent post, even more so after what Frankel did at the weekend.
Well done, and once again, please accept my apologies.
No need to apologise mate – thank you very much though!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
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Fast forward to Royal Ascot and say Frankel loses the St James Palace, how good a decision would it have been to bring him there?
If you had to lose a race then it would be in the Derby surely?
I think he races far too keen,he seems to be a real free goer,couldn’t see him getting the trip of the Derby.The danger in the shorter races may be someone putting in a pacemaker to try and keep up with him for 5f to try and bring him undone,might not beat him but someone will most likely try.I think the rest of this prep will tell us just how good he is,it will be very interesting.
[*]I think the horse is underrated. If he ever wins over a mile and four Henry will look a coward for not going for the Derby.How many other trainers would duck the Derby with this horse? Would Stouty,Aidan, Oxx, Bolger?I don’t think so.
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[*]I think the horse is underrated. If he ever wins over a mile and four Henry will look a coward for not going for the Derby.How many other trainers would duck the Derby with this horse? Would Stouty,Aidan, Oxx, Bolger?I don’t think so.
Goes far too fierce early to have any chance of staying the Derby trip,a wise decision by Cecil,far from him being underrated i think it is a long time since the hype has surrounded a horse.
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