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To be fair, I am not sure anyone could claim to rate this performance with much confidence. And it is not out of the question that Frankel will be a 126 horse. Eventually.
I make the time in the mid-110s, which is pretty damn good in the circumstances.
Would Phil Smith have made him a 118 with his yardstick handicapping a few years ago, when the winning margin would have been classified as 14 lengths? He didn’t address the point in my question to him.
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Derby winner, there’s seriously nothing lying around in the big yards forward enough to be a Derby winner in June.
Beast! 2011 flat season has already eclipsed the jumps season!
Mr.Wilson, surely you realise that the chances of this animal eclipsing Sea The Stars’ feats "with ease" are extraordinarily slim?!
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White Moonstone was good but he’s in the wrong yard. They can’t get Simon De Montfort in the Arc! There’s something wrong with Godolphin.
You know where you stand with Cecil and will wait to see him against some of the better animals.
As we all know Mr Cecil never over hypes the situation.
When he is using phrases like "long time since I had one as promising", or "could be special", I think that it is worth taking note.
Things can obviously go wrong, and horses can develop at different rates, but the omens look good.
The connections are second to none, and I wish them every success with himIf he were mine I would probably put him away for the season as he doesn’t shape as if he particularly needs any more experience.
Think that’s exactly what he needs, more experience as his main opposition was withdrawn here and he beat a couple of trees.
The Dewhurst could be ideal, wonder why Cecil thought he wasn’t entered.If he were mine I would probably put him away for the season as he doesn’t shape as if he particularly needs any more experience.
Think that’s exactly what he needs, more experience as his main opposition was withdrawn here and he beat a couple of trees.
The Dewhurst could be ideal, wonder why Cecil thought he wasn’t entered.It seems you will probably get your wish but I don’t think a potentially hard race will do him any favours. Yesterday he raced quite freely without being out of control and showed no signs of inexperience in running straight to the line. A horse like Nashwan wasn’t thrown in deep as a juvenile and you would think this horse would have aspirations towards a similar campaign at three.
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Group 1 Horse no doubt.
However i will have to wait and see how he runs in the Racing Post.
I hear they muted the Royal Lodge but thats a shite race for Proper Horses.
Racing Post for me
It looks like he’ll be going to the Royal Lodge cause Henry wants him away before the end of October.
Quotes for the guineas are crazy cause he’ll never race in it, he’ll go the same route as Bullet Train did if everything goes well.
To be fair, I am not sure anyone could claim to rate this performance with much confidence. And it is not out of the question that Frankel will be a 126 horse. Eventually.
I make the time in the mid-110s, which is pretty damn good in the circumstances.
Timeform has a time of 115 and a form of 115 too.
With a bloody big Pee.
Quotes for the guineas are crazy cause he’ll never race in it, he’ll go the same route as Bullet Train did if everything goes well.
Based on what knowledge – I assume you are not a spokesperson for the connections? All the 16/1 has now disappeared – it had gone before Zoffany flopped.
The horse was dropped back in distance from a soft ground mile maiden and showed bags of pace. He looks in a totally different league to Bullet Train so any comparison with that horse would not seem to be particularly useful.
Yes, he might not run in the Guineas. As for the Derby there is the doubt about stamina, doubt about acting on the track and at this stage the opposition is a mystery. Sorry, for all those who are already on for the Derby – perhaps you are trying to convince yourselves that he won’t turn up at Newmarket – but if you want an ante-post bet the Guineas appears the logical way to go. One step at a time.
I had been hoping that Cecil was teasing the press with idea of running the horse in both the Royal Lodge and Racing Post Trophy. It appears not. Yes, Cecil hasn’t been winning the major 2yo races but is it really worth jeopardising the Classic ambitions? Hard to believe anyone who has backed the horse for the Guineas or Derby can think this a step in the right direction.
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The Royal Lodge was the favoured choice of Cecil’s (original) father-in-law and mentor, Noel Murless, perhaps the greatest of all 20th century English trainers. He still holds the record, with eight winners including two which went on to win the Derby.
This might seem odd on the face of it: because he believed that racing 2yo potential classic horses over 7F or more in their juvenile careers was always going to prove detrimental to their ultimate development. He was certainly no fan of the Dewhurst or (what is now) the Racing Post Trophy, though; and clearly the easier test of the Royal Lodge was a different matter.
His last (and best) Royal Lodge winner was the great, the peerless, Royal Palace. That colt won the race in 1966 on his way to what should have been a Triple Crown, had not injury intervened before the St Leger. And his robust 4yo career (unbeaten, including the Eclipse where he beat Sir Ivor, and the King George, where he won despite fracturing a leg!) is further good evidence that the easier task of a Royal Lodge rather a Middle Park or Dewhurst is often a good idea in the long run.
Later classic winners to win the Royal Lodge have included Shirley Heights, Benny the Dip and Mister Baileys. Ascot have neglected it rather of late, but it’s none the less a well-timed, valuable Group 2 which will always appeal to traditionalists such as Henry Cecil, whose colts (notably High Estate) have won no fewer than six renewals.
Following on from the points Pinza made. I’ve noticed over the last few years, that H.Cecil has seemed keen to test the stamina of his better middle-distance horses as 2yo’s. His G1 winners Passage of Time and Twice Over both raced & won over 1m2f as 2yo’s, & many others (as you would probably expect) raced over a 1m as 2yo’s.
You could agrue that it’s significant (& unusual) that Cecil was prepared to drop Frankel back in trip to 7f for his second run. They must think he has speed, & the Doncaster time seems to back that up.
I’m sure none of us really know, but if there’s any milage in the above, it could be they are thinking of going via the 2000gns.
Just had a look at the list of Royal Lodge winners on Wikipedia. Even someone with a fair knowledge of history would be doing well to remember much more than the names of several winners. It appears to have lost its significance and I am not sure it deserves Group 2 status.
I haven’t checked but I suspect not too many horses have even attempted let alone completed the Royal Lodge/Racing Post Trophy double.
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Not sure what makes you say that, Stilvi, when the last three winners have been City Leader, Jukebox Jury, and Joshua Tree. All these were/are very good horses and Group 1 contenders at least; though as yet only Jukebox Jury has won at that level, Joshua Tree must be fancied to do so back over 12F, as he didn’t get home in the Leger.
The race keeps its Group 2 status because the average official ratings of horses concerned justify it. This is not a matter of opinion, but of fact.
As a springboard to the classics, it still does well enough – Ascot have certainly been lobbying to have it elevated to Group 1 status, which seems baying for the moon; but it remains a prestigious Group 2, and Frankel’s participation will frank its quality!
Of course with Coolmore calling the classic shots to the extent they do, none of these great 2yo championship races are the test they once were. The decline affects the Doncaster Trophy (under whatever name), the Dewhurst and Middle Park as much as it does the Mill Reef, Royal Lodge et. al.
Perhaps like some you feel the whole lot might be downgraded a notch?
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I haven’t checked but I suspect not too many horses have even attempted let alone completed the Royal Lodge/Racing Post Trophy double.
I’m not sure any Royal Lodge winning trainer would be mad enough to ruin their charge by attempting such a crazy "double". Two stiff tests over a mile for a 2yo, with about four weeks between them…. one shudders.
The last three winners of the Doncaster race have been Ibn Khaldun, Crowded House and St Nicholas Abbey, none of which have managed to win a single race since. That doesn’t mean the Trophy should be downgraded, of course!
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