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I don’t know the official reasons why smoking was banned in public places in Scotland but in Ireland the reason the legislation was introduced was to ban smoking in the workplace which thereby included pubs/restaurants etc (the issue of prisons/nursing homes is another argument to some extent)
david .. smoking was banned in Scotland by Fat Jack McConnel, he’s the little obese one with the huge pelican like chin. Sort of stunt you could expect from a bitter ex-smoker.
Just got back to catch up on this post. My interest here is I am a Health & Safety Professional and get asked about this all the time.
I do not really care if someone smokes. I do prefer a smoke free atmosphere in a pub. I do find it interesting peoples perception of risk and how smokers are in denial of the facts.
My own sister has gave up eating meat during the BSE crisis and Foot & Mouth, complains furiously about the dangers of Mobile phone masts yet smokes like a chimney.
David,
I think in Ireland like Scotland he new legislation was brought in under a Health Act rather than the Health & Safety at Work Act.
More information is at http://www.cleaningtheairscotland.com  from which I extracted the bit below.
"Background<br>In January 2004 the Scottish Executive published a tobacco control action plan, A Breath of Fresh Air for Scotland: Improving Scotland’s Health – the Challenge. The plan set out a range of measures to strengthen tobacco control, including prevention work, education and communications, controls on sales and the expansion of high quality cessation services.
The plan also looked at the possibility of imposing greater controls on smoking in public places in the face of a growing body of evidence that more restrictions would result in a significant improvement in the nation’s health.
Research shows that more than 13,000 people in Scotland die every year from the effects of smoking and within that number around 1,000 deaths could be attributed to passive smoking, that is breathing in other people’s tobacco smoke. This is also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) or second-hand smoke.
A consultation on possible changes in the law that followed attracted more than 53,000 responses. The findings showed that a large majority, 82%, thought that further action needed to be taken to reduce exposure to second-hand smoke. 80% of respondents said they would support a law creating smoke-free enclosed public places, with few exemptions.
The Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Bill was introduced to Parliament on December 17, 2004, formally proposing that smoking should be banned in enclosed public places such as workplaces, pubs and restaurants.
The Bill was approved by MSPs on June 30, 2005, by a majority of 97 to 17 with one abstention.
It received Royal Assent on August 5, 2005, and the new Act came into force on March 26, 2006"
Interestingly under the H & S at Work Act the duty of care is with the employer (bar owner) to provide a safe working environment not the employee (bar staff). <br>
.. the only pub in Scotland where you can go and have a smoke now is in the Scottish Parliament itself. I wonder why this is, is fat Jack not only bitter, but a bitter hypocrit?
Regarding the consultation (which I took part in) the questions were loaded to say the least and the actual responses to it were never made public, as they said that they would be before it was completed. So the claims made by the officianados cannot be checked or corroborated either way. I do believe that the legislation is supported generally, but not as much as they would like to make out that they are.
As a displaced Jock living in England for what seems like a thousand years I have been feeling quite smug about the smoking ban north of Hadrians Wall and east of Offas Mead. Well pleased to be drawing off in bookies and bars until recently. But as of the last few days I am finding it a bit discomforting to find that this particular pleasure has now been outlawed.You can smoke in the street but it will cost you £80 if you drop your fag end in the gutter.
As someone who has less years ahead than behind, I can’t help feeling that maybe this particular piece of legislation could have been phased in much like the seat belt law and let us old carcogenic candidates fade out naturarly, albeit expensively and painfully. Surely this is all about choices, be it for the proprioters of establishments and/or their employees and their customers. This whole idea of the nanny state is getting on my tits, For health and safety read you have been informed of the dangers so don’t blame or sue me or put me in prison. So what! As if I would!Hoofski…I can understand the points you make. However, as someone who was living in Ireland when they introduced the smoking ban, I can honestly say give a few days and you won’t miss it.
The bonus being, when you do nip out side side for a smoke…that’s where all the interesting people are.!
I echo that. The pubs in Cork were a pleasure to be in. No filthy ashtrays, none of that London fog hanging at eye level. It’ll take time to get used to, but we won’t miss it.
Haven’t had a cigarette since January 8th – and its only the first one I miss – but I must admit, that stone faced hag in the Health Department makes me want to start again.
as someone who has spent most of the past quarter century in pubs, i was shocked last night when i visited 6 local pubs and found three of them completely empty, two of them with less than 5 people in and one, with a dozen people in of whom half were new ‘non-pub’ people who disappeared after a drink – non-pub people do not understand the idea of spending a whole evening, every evening and it’s cost in a pub and never will
all of these pubs up until the weekend were busy local pubs, three of them were bars where you went for a posh pint and to pull – they’re completely dead now because if there’s nobody there to pull, they’re out of business
the three ‘local’ type pubs were just empty, devoid of all of their regulars which made up most of their trade and you cannot find people who are willing to spend 10-20-30 pound a night every night if they haven’t done it before – they don’t exist
i won’t be bothering with pubs much any more as the people i knew aren’t and i won’t pay 3 pound a pint to smoke outside when i can do it at home for 1 pound a pint
this governmental law has just killed off the pub trade in england and that will be felt all the way back to the people who make the beer and deliver it – i hope i’m wrong and pubs will recover and it’s pointless anyone saying they will because they have elsewhere – we’ll just have to wait and see and i will be first to admit in a fortnight and a month’s time if it has
but if last night was anything to go by, pubs will be closing everywhere, the exchequer will lose billions – net – and the fatties and hypochondriac do-gooders who cost the nhs more than smokers and drinkers combined will have to foot the bill for that – serve the selfish f*ckers right
and nobody can say the pubs weren’t busy, were crap, etc, unless you’ve spent every night in them for the past god knows how long – they were busy pubs, they’re dead now
In the pub I went to last night the custom was about 2/3rds down on normal for a Monday night. The weather might of had something to do with it, nevertheless, it was certainly noticeable but I still suggest give it a few weeks.
I don’t know if certain people are aware, but the smoking ban has come into force in every other area of the UK, and in each of these areas there was an initial dissent and nosedive in pub business, but they have all recovered sufficiently. England will be the same, attitudes across the UK aren’t all that different. The sooner people stop whining about it and stop panicking about the impending end of the Great British public house, the sooner business will recover.
I can’t argue with too much of what Friggo says, frankly, and our local was absolutely rammed last night.
It was fun being at Rock City at Nottingham last Saturday, with a couple of sources handing out cigars for one last night of puffing away in that particular venue – throwing oneself around to Chop Suey by System of a Down with lungs full of burned leaf straight after was a bit wearing, though.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I’ve gotten used to it now.
The only down-side so far is that we got (extra) trousered one lunchtime around Chrimbo, couldn’t be arsed going back into work, and all ended-up getting pinched, because we were outside the pub tabbing. It didnt exactly help that the windows of our capitalist ****** gendarmes offices, looked directly onto the pub.
Rather than give up drinking and smoking and becoming professional, we simply moved to a pub round the corner.
Job done.
I don’t know if certain people are aware, but the smoking ban has come into force in every other area of the UK, and in each of these areas there was an initial dissent and nosedive in pub business, but they have all recovered sufficiently.
.. we have been lumbered with the smoking ban in Scotland for a while now, there are around 13 pubs and 1 nightclub that has shut up shop in Ayr since it was forced on us. It doesn’t bother me because I don’t go out drinking, except at Christmas, but to say they have recovered sufficiently is a okay, if you didn’t lose your livelihood.
This is great! my first inrtoduced thread where I haven’t been howled down by the likes of Diane Avis etc. I must admit that I do appreciated the air freshner smell of the commision agents but the smell of a smoke free pub is going to take some getting used to. Didn’t realise there was so much body odour about. Bring back the Lifebouy adverts!
It was fun being at Rock City at Nottingham last Saturday, with a couple of sources handing out cigars for one last night of puffing away in that particular venue – throwing oneself around to Chop Suey by System of a Down with lungs full of burned leaf straight after was a bit wearing, though.
gc
Rock City…now that brings back memories!
As a non-smoker I really appreciate the smoking ban. It’s so nice to come back from a night out not stinking of smoke. In fact, I found it very odd a few weeks ago when I ventured south of the border and everyone lit up when we got into the pub.
Most of my smoker friends feel that the ban has been a good thing in Scotland and I hope that England will come round eventually.Society as a whole resents change…another example would be the introduction of the wearing of body protectors compulsory for all stable staff. Everyone is complaining about it now but a year from now staff won’t think twice about putting their ‘bullet-proof vests’ on.
Rock City…now that brings back memories!
Hihihi, I’ve left some of my very best braincells there over the years!
Society as a whole resents change…another example would be the introduction of the wearing of body protectors compulsory for all stable staff. Everyone is complaining about it now but a year from now staff won’t think twice about putting their ‘bullet-proof vests’ on.
I know it happened at the racetrack rather than in the stables, but in light of what happened to Chris Kinane you’d think people’s first inclination would be to protect themselves from something similar.
Horses are not cuddly. They bite. They kick. Leaving yourself too exposed in the face of the very worst of their behavioural traits strikes me as daft when protective measures are available. Indeed, having seen a few near-misses wrought by indisciplined or plain nervous maidens at several point-to-point meetings this year, I wouldn’t regard the issuing of the vests for lads and lasses leading horses in the parade ring as anything of an over-reaction, either.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
This is great! my first inrtoduced thread where I haven’t been howled down by the likes of Diane Avis etc.
I don’t think Ian is empowered to howl down anyone on these boards nowadays, unless he has been given another chance as part of the boards’ relaunch.
I’m sure some of us could do some howling, though, if you ever find yourself pining for it.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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