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On a similar note it would appear that Adam Kirby may have lost the ride on Excelebration. I sincerely hope not.
Which of the "superstar" Coolmore jockeys is better suited to ride the horse, than the man that knows him.
This may be even more unjustified than the Michael Owen fiascoComparisson with Sir Henry Cecil and Queally/Mongan are wide of the mark.
Sir Henry has a vast number of Group 1 victories to his name. So too does Mr Abdulla. It’s not the same.
Tom Dascombe and Michael Owen may never get the chance of Group 1/Classic glory again.
Value Is EverythingReality is that "jocking off" has always gone on and always will – remember how many times Piggott was involved.
I don’t have too much time for Fallon the man, but he full well knows that if he didn’t take the ride someone else would. Kingscote knows the same.
Owen fired his previous trainer :-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horser … ughan.html
Dascombe didn’t enjoy the best of starts there, although results have improved. Thus we don’t know how much choice he actually had in the matter.
Kingscote is a middle ranker. He could spit the dummy and leave but where else would he go to in the short run?
I have no issue with changing the jockey – two disappointing defeats in a row/two poor rides – take your pick?
What I do find difficult is the apparant media love affair with Fallon. He rides plenty of shockers himself, horses frequently pull with him on board and there have been several examples this season of several rides wandering under pressure (in some cases narrowly avoiding accidents). Nobody seems to comment on the negatives but if he rides a couple of winners even if they are by narrow margins on short priced favourites it seems to be a different story.
I don’t think Brown Panther will win and for me Fallon on board is not a major plus.
Fallon has won neither the St Leger or the Park Hill, while he has a decent enough strike rate at Doncaster I wouldn’t say it would be as important as if it was Epsom, where he is a markedly better jockey.
Comparisson with Sir Henry Cecil and Queally/Mongan are wide of the mark.
Sir Henry has a vast number of Group 1 victories to his name. So too does Mr Abdulla. It’s not the same.
Tom Dascombe and Michael Owen may never get the chance of Group 1/Classic glory again.
That depends on your viewpoint. H Cecil has what is probably the best horse of his career, a career that is not long back on the rails after almost sinking out of sight. Success means a huge amount personally to this still ambitious trainer and he is faced with what amounted almost to a campaign to jock Queally off (witness the rather shameful large article in the RP asking 4 ‘good’ jockeys how Frankel should be ridden in the Sussex Stakes).
I’d say Mr Cecil was under a hell of a lot more pressure – his judgement being openly called into question in a much higher profile situation – than is the case with Mr Owen.
Henry Cecil remained cool and loyal. Michael Owen comes from a very hard school where only the very best make it – it’s no surprise that his attitude is tough, ‘professional’ and business-like; I’m just not sure such an attitude will serve him well in his racing ambitions.
Frankel had already proven himself as a brilliant racehorse before the Sussex.
Cecil already won numerous Group 1’s.
Maybe there was pressure on Cecil, but this St Leger could change the career of Tom Dascombe and Michael Owen’s yard out of all recognition. One Frankel loss in the Sussex would’ve changed little in Sir Henry’s career. It is much easier to withstand pressure and remain "loyal" if you’ve had top class success in the past.Say you went for a job interview where to win the job might possibly make millions (bringing in new clients) and put you at the top of your proffesion. This might be your one and only chance of the Big Time! You have one person to help get that job.
Who do you choose?
Your friend who has done a good job, but made mistakes on this particular subject (mount) in the past?
Or an expert, not the nicest of blokes but proven time and time again when pressure is paramount?
Knowing that your friend would share in the success in the long term if successful, even if not chosen this time (getting better rides in future).Value Is EverythingGinger, in my case, my friend and my commitment to him that he’d be with me for the big jobs as well as the small ones, would be my choice, even if I didn’t have an Owen-sized fortune to fall back on.
I’m not saying that should be everyone’s decision, only that it would be mine.
With 107 winners to date this year don’t you think you are somewhat harsh on Fallon Ruby? Many younger and fitter would wish to ride so well.He is the only rider that Aidan has put up on Recital who did the job!Must say something about his skills and fitness.Sure he did not ride many big race winners this last four years but he was suspended for drug violations in France was he not?Perhaps Owen’s own experience of how older athletes are treated helped him make his decision.I think Kieren has great courage and is a wonderful jockey if not ones favourite uncle.Credit where credit is due.Since I am "super adult" berhaps I am biased.I watched Kinane come out of retirement at the same age and admired his "old head" approach on Sea the Stars.
Eclipse First refers to Fallons appalling behavior with Native Khan. Subsequent events have led me to believe that it was the owners insistence on running that horse in the Derby where he was completely out of his debth that has proved Fallon right. Fallon knew the horse was out of his league and presumed the trainer would support his opinion with the owner.
It doesn’t matter if the horse was good enough to win the Derby, there are plenty of horses that have run in the race that have had no realistic chance of winning since 1780. However, Mr Fallon signed a contract to ride the horse and then tried to break that contract, which a judge in possession of the facts deemed was unacceptable. Once he had given a written commitment it is not a question of the horse’s ability but the human being’s duty to fulfil that commitment.
There is a word which encapsulates such behaviour!
Do all jockeys who ride first jockey sign a contract?If so then the present issue is moot.The excuses being given by Richard Hughes today for riding the stable selection in the Leger never mentioned whether he had a contract with Hannon to ride the stable selection or not.He attributed his decision to loyalty.Had he stayed with his stable he would have been leading jockey at Ascot. Is word of mouth considered a contract?Is a hand shake considered a contract?McCoy once said "I have a committment unless I get a better offer" re a ride for Noel Chance in the Gold Cup.Did Gosden have a contract with Fortune?Few go to court on these issues.Did Eddery every repay Walwyn for his loyalty? Did he not dump him for Ballydoyle shortly after?Loyalty to Eddery effectively ended Walwyn’s career as a trainer if I recall correctly.
"A good jockey doesnt make him a good person".Please Eclipse First nobody will dispute that. We don’t pick Mother Therese to ride our horses.
Comparisson with Sir Henry Cecil and Queally/Mongan are wide of the mark.
Sir Henry has a vast number of Group 1 victories to his name. So too does Mr Abdulla. It’s not the same.
Tom Dascombe and Michael Owen may never get the chance of Group 1/Classic glory again.
Perhaps I should have used Pam Sly and Micky Fenton as a closer comparison (Edit – re: Speciosa), and there have been numerous others over the years. I was using Cecil/Queally as a "fresh in the mind" example of a true team ethic as in "I hear your criticism of this event or that event. But even if that criticism is entirely valid I will stick with this person because I have long-term faith in his abilities, and I want him as a full participant in this team."
None of us is perfect, and none of knows in advance on which occasions we will be poor, average or brilliant. We can make judgements about which people are talented, communicative, positive, helpful, willing to learn, etc., to make us want them as part of our team. We sometimes find out that we were mistaken and have to bite the bullet and tell someone that they are not going to make it in this team. But it is hardly helpful to tell someone he is part of the team – but only sometimes – when it is not important.
Reading the Manor House Stables website and links to comments by Owen and Black about their aspirations, it seems they are in it for the long haul. The investment they have made does not lead me to think they will lose their ambition if they win the St Leger this year. Richard Kingscote has been part of the set-up for quite a while now, and must be giving the team good jockey’s feedback about the horses on the gallops and in their races to help maximize the stable’s success, otherwise they would have let him go by now. Riding two winners at Royal Ascot would have cemented his place in the team. The business risk of jocking him off in the St Leger is not insignificant; the possibility of a reduced input from the jockey, perhaps other team members feeling let down, perhaps other team members looking over their shoulder instead of contributing fully in their job. That is without going into the continuing debate about when to treat horse racing as a sport and when as a business. From both a sporting and business point of view I would have Richard Kingscote on board if the horse were mine.
Fair enough MV, Speciosa is indeed a better comparisson.
I don’t know if any "top" jockeys were available that day. Hughsie the only one I can think of without a ride there. Even though Hannon’s Nasheej ridden by Moore. Possibility of getting Kinane instead of him being on the Meehan 16/1 shot. Speciosa is an uncomplicated ride, point and go. There’s also the fact Speciosa was a soft ground performer and whether jockeys want to confirm themselves to such a filly some time before the race.
But your point is well made MV, Pam Sly got what her loyalty deserved. Like to think I’d do the same, but very much doubt it. Dascombe and Owen should not be castigated for going the other way. Nobody knows when each jockey is going to make a mistake, but the best jockeys make fewer mistakes.
Value Is EverythingDo all jockeys who ride first jockey sign a contract?If so then the present issue is moot.The excuses being given by Richard Hughes today for riding the stable selection in the Leger never mentioned whether he had a contract with Hannon to ride the stable selection or not.He attributed his decision to loyalty.Had he stayed with his stable he would have been leading jockey at Ascot. Is word of mouth considered a contract?Is a hand shake considered a contract?McCoy once said "I have a committment unless I get a better offer" re a ride for Noel Chance in the Gold Cup.Did Gosden have a contract with Fortune?Few go to court on these issues.Did Eddery every repay Walwyn for his loyalty? Did he not dump him for Ballydoyle shortly after?Loyalty to Eddery effectively ended Walwyn’s career as a trainer if I recall correctly.
Andy, what happens in other cases was not in the remit of my statement. It was reported that the trainer asserted in a court of law that he had witnessed Fallon sign a contract to ride Native Khan in the Derby. Obviously the behaviour of Fallon in this case was extreme enough for the injured party to seek and gain legal redress.
Do all jockeys who ride first jockey sign a contract?If so then the present issue is moot.The excuses being given by Richard Hughes today for riding the stable selection in the Leger never mentioned whether he had a contract with Hannon to ride the stable selection or not.He attributed his decision to loyalty.Had he stayed with his stable he would have been leading jockey at Ascot. Is word of mouth considered a contract?Is a hand shake considered a contract?McCoy once said "I have a committment unless I get a better offer" re a ride for Noel Chance in the Gold Cup.Did Gosden have a contract with Fortune?Few go to court on these issues.Did Eddery every repay Walwyn for his loyalty? Did he not dump him for Ballydoyle shortly after?Loyalty to Eddery effectively ended Walwyn’s career as a trainer if I recall correctly.
Hughes’s decision was a no brainer.
He could get off Census and alienate his father in law who puts 120 winners his way each season or go and ride the fav for Stoute.
Yes, the same Stoute who was instrumental in Hughes losing the Abdulla retainer because he wouldn’t put Hughes up on the Prince’s horses (partly it is assumed because of his ride on Home Affairs at Epsom).Stoute hasn’t used him much since the split, now all of a sudden wants him to ride Sea Moon!
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