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Eclipse 2015

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  • #1118040
    Avatar photoThe Thinker
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    A walk in the park for Golden Horn? I’m hoping The Grey Gatsby can give him a good fight at least

    Surprised how small the field is. Any particular reason for this? I’m not as knowledgeable as most of you so there may be a reason for this but I thought being a Group 1 race and decent prize money, it would have attracted a stronger field? :unsure: Obviously aware New Bay is missing, which is a blow.

    #1118068
    Avatar photoChivers1987
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    I’m not sure how many others were possibilities, but I know Free Eagle (Dermot Weld) is missing as he is being aimed over 12 furlongs.
    With this heat wave arriving, the ground is going to be rattling and there wont be many who will want their horse running on that so soon after Ascot, or just in general, so they will save them for later on in the season.

    #1118621
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    Just five runners here and a race with very little betting appeal.

    Ladbrokes have winning margin betting and the call to me looks to be Golden Horn to win by more than 4 lengths at 9/2.

    Of course he may be eased down but his only serious opponent is The Grey Gatsby and he’s hardly the most consistent horse in the world. Maybe they will have one eye on the King George and try to win as cosily as possible but I reckon Golden Horn could win this by a decent margin if he’s pushed out and 9/2 offers a decent reward in an otherwise unappetising betting event.

    Ladbrokes more than 4 lengths 9/2 for Golden Horn believers

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1118635
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    I think that looks a decent bet Steve.
    Golden Horn has won his races kicking on early enough and staying strong. If they go a slow pace and he stalks you have Cougar Mountain if settling with plenty of speed so tactically I wouldn’t think Dettori would want to leave his move for home too late. The trouble like you say is if he eases him up, if TGG has a decent lead over the others then he possible would also ease up if Golden Horn has shot clear. Western Hymn is a puzzler surely Gosden doesn’t think he’ll win? has the owner put him in? or is he in there to make the pace?

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1118638
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Every one of the five runners are hold up horses. Certainly wouldn’t be any point rivals to Golden Horn (a 10 to 12 furlong horse) making anything like a true pace.

    Cougar Mountain had form at sprint distances last year and only just proved himself at a mile.
    Tullius is a miler.
    Western Hym is an out and out 10 furlong horse.
    The Grey Gatsby is a 10f horse.

    This reminds me of when Bosra Sham met Pilsudski. Favourite may even need to make his own running here. Will he settle? Golden Horn is the most likely winner, but a slow early pace and how each runner/jockey reacts will play a big part. Not only with who wins, but also by how far. Slowly run races are rarely won by many lengths.

    Although on “form” GH should win by further; with the pace angle – if having a bet – I’d rather take 9/2 to win by less than 1.75 lengths.

    Value Is Everything
    #1118639
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    I think that looks a decent bet Steve.
    Golden Horn has won his races kicking on early enough and staying strong. If they go a slow pace and he stalks you have Cougar Mountain if settling with plenty of speed so tactically I wouldn’t think Dettori would want to leave his move for home too late. The trouble like you say is if he eases him up, if TGG has a decent lead over the others then he possible would also ease up if Golden Horn has shot clear. Western Hymn is a puzzler surely Gosden doesn’t think he’ll win? has the owner put him in? or is he in there to make the pace?

    I just feel Golden Horn could improve another 5lbs yet. If you take his literal margin of victory at Epsom and stick him in the Irish Derby instead of Jack Hobbs, he comes out as an eight and a half length winner at The Curragh. Theoretical of course but hardly Fantasy Island stuff.

    The official handicap has Golden Horn on 125 but Timeform were more impressed with a mark of 131p and The Irish Derby did nothing to detract from the notion that the Epsom form was solid and that winner Jack Hobbs is probably due a rise in the ratings, as Golden Horn himself may be due, even without improving on his Epsom performance.

    Western Hymn is 3/3 at Sandown over course and distance but this would be a career best for him by some margin and either the owners are ambitious, or happy to pick up some decent place money here. With the 11 lbs weight for age concession Golden Horn should take some beating here, and as long as he sets sail for home soon enough, his past couple of races suggest that Frankie might have a job easing him up, even if he wants to.

    There looked worse bets at 9/2 for me and I’d rather play at those odds than win only and watch him have an off day and not even win it.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1118644
    mickeyjp
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    If it’s a tactical affair both the grey gatsby and cougar mountain will not be far away. I do fancy the grey gatsby to beat g horn though as he is coming right now.

    #1118653
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    If it’s a tactical affair both the grey gatsby and cougar mountain will not be far away. I do fancy the grey gatsby to beat g horn though as he is coming right now.

    The big worry for The Grey Gatsby fans is that Golden Horn is 4/4 in his career and has already won as many races as the grey horse, who is 4/14 in his career.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1118654
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    Gosden has said Western Hymn might not run, they will make a decision later in the week.

    The trainer has also said that Golden Horn’s odds are ridiculous and that he should be evens and The Grey Gatsby 2/1

    I like fairy stories myself.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1118655
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    The official handicapper has raised Jack Hobbs 4 lbs to a mark of 123 following his Irish Derby win. It makes Golden Horn’s 125 look a bit stingy in retrospect to my eyes.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1118656
    Avatar photoIan
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    The Grey Gatsby to make the running???

    #1119557
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    The Grey Gatsby to make the running???

    That would be my guess IB, although am not confident enough to have a bet yet. Possibly a better in-running betting race.

    Value Is Everything
    #1119596
    Avatar photoThe Young Fella
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    Western Hymn is a major doubt as well according to Gosden. You’ve got to feel for the sponsors with the race cutting up so badly. Imagine the fun if we had New Bay, California Chrome, Gleneagles and all the others who were in there originally.

    #1119635
    Avatar photoChivers1987
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    It is a shame about the runners, last years turnout was good, but I think the race will be run true enough. I cant see why any tactics would bother GH that much anyway. He has the turn of foot over 10f and has the stamina for 12f so a slow or fast pace shouldn’t be a hindrance.
    I think a small wager on that 9/2 more than 4 lengths is worth it.

    #1119636
    LD73
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    When you are on the best horse in the race, it is surprising just how much trouble you can get yourself into on a hold up horse at Sandown especially in a small field – just asked Fallon about the poor ride he gave Bosra Sham in ’97.

    Dettori shouldn’t over think things, just bounce GH out and make the running to suit himself – the old addage of ‘the best place to be in a slowly run race is in front’ surely applies here.

    The only thing that would worry me with these tactics is that in the first 1F of the Derby he pulled extremely hard, so Dettori may prefer not to risk it – if he doesn’t go from the front then I would suggest that whoever rides The Grey Gatsby should.

    Given the prevailing fast ground, you would have to question whether Tullius will also line up as well given that all of his best form is on much softer ground. Even if they do all run, I can’t believe Coral are too thrilled about this turnout, they must be praying GH puts in a Frankelesque performance to draw attention away from the fact.

    #1122130
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Think Frankie’s hand has been forced with the Draw. Golden Horn 1 and The Grey Gatsby 2. Spencer will want to trap Frankie on the rail (get in front with another horse alongside). Therefore Dettori will probably want to lead and just hope he settles well (touch free in the first couple of furlongs in Derby before settling well).

    Value Is Everything
    #1122156
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    I was toying with Western Hymn as an each-way at 25/1. It has been billed as a two horse race and a shoo-in forecast Golden Horn to beat The Grey Gatsby and it will probably unfold that way.

    Western Hymn needs to find 3 lengths with The Grey Gatsby on their last run at Royal Ascot but he loves Sandown and The Grey Gatsby is hardly the most reliable horse, with a 4/14 strike rate over his career and he was only fourth when 11/10 favourite for the Tattersalls Gold Cup at The Curragh.

    Cougar Mountain has stamina to prove and I am sceptical about his 10 lb rise in the ratings after his Queen Anne run last time. It seems hard to accept that he suddenly became a better horse that day. Yes the stable were in terrific form at the time but my suspicion is that the winner Solow won the race without being near his best form. Hong Kong star Able Friend was disabled on the day and both Toormore and Night Of Thunder were disappointing in what was a slightly disappointing week for the Hannon team. It was a race billed as one of the best of the meeting but it was all rather flat in the end, even if I did pick Solow at 7/2 way back in March.

    I can’t help thinking Western Hymn at 25/1 and Cougar Mountain at 8/1 looks all wrong given that the former horse is C+D three times and the other horse’s sole win is a 6f maiden :wacko:

    I hope Golden Horn puts in a right good display here in an otherwise uninspiring looking renewal.

    I would gamble on his stable mate nabbing the forecast spot at big odds.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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