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Commonwealth Cup 2017

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  • #1264445
    darren83
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8404

    HARRY ANGEL 14/1

    With doubts over Carravaggio i got a feeling not train on.Blue Point looks very good horse he be short price if he wins middle park.Lady Aurelia better over 5f doubts about her at 3.Queen Kindly was 1st horse going to put up but Fahey wants to make her into a miler i feel she not stay 1m.Should go for this.But am going with the Cox horse he knows what he doing training sprinters and this be target.Why mill reef race not the strongest still impressive way he won it on 2nd start.

    #1266352
    darren83
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8404

    What you guys think of this race any horses who you think not stay 1m next year who may drop in trip to come here to.

    #1290252
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34556

    I’m in agreement Daz,
    Just backed Harry Angel at 10’s
    Cox will target this race I’m sure and he looks the right type to improve, lightly raced 2 y/o
    Until Caravaggio has a run you’d have to be cautious

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1290259
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34556

    I like the fact he ran his maiden, quite keen, a little green and pulling a bit but Kirby really looked after him, didn’t go for the whip, maybe half a slap down the shoulder but to then not race for over 4 months and come back in a group 2 and win still running keen enough must have a lot of ability and the yard know it.

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1290427
    Avatar photohein bollow
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 986

    I like Mrs Danvers here. She is a real underdog and has always been underestimated, which will also be the case in this race, but it might be a mistake.
    She is very explosive and has a real sprint pedigree, and I am confident she will play an excellent role in here.

    #1290486
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    I backed Blue Point for the 2000 Guineas, only for the trainer to then say the horse would be aimed at The Commonwealth Cup because he was an out and out Sprinter.

    Lo and Behold, they then run him in the Dewhurst over 7F. I hate when trainers say one thing and immediately contradict themselves.

    Anyway, I think Blue Point will take the world of beating in the Commonwealth Cup, assuming they are not going to chase the Guineas with him. He has class and has the breeding and physique to make a top notch 3yo.

    I readily prefer the Dewhurst form, where Rivet went on to win the Racing Post Trophy and Thunder Snow went on to hack up at Meydan. It’s the strongest form there is in my opinion.

    Harry Angel is unexposed but going into that Mill Reef he won, he mostly faced horses whose form was much earlier in the season. Sutter County, Global Applause and Legendary Lunch were all promising sprinters early doors but they were looking past their sell by date and hence the reason for the confidence and favouritism of Harry Angel. I think I had the mug’s forecast that day in my local Ladbrokes, with Perfect Angel, who came in rated 89 but I felt the others possessed less scope.

    Looking at the Mill Reef since, Perfect Angel was raised 11 lbs to 100 but did she really improve in beating horses who seemed generally disappointing coming into the race. Sutter County is 1 from his last 8 starts, having landed his first two and I wouldn’t hang my hat on his 103 rating. Legendary Lunch was having his 7th race of the season in the Mill Reef and hasn’t been seen since. Global Applause was having his 8th race of the season and also hasn’t been out since. Perfect Angel was beaten the next two times she ran, favourite in one and fancied in the other.

    I have already said that I have concerns about seeing Caravaggio again. Despite his easy win last time when odds on at 1/8, that was the worst Phoenix Stakes I can ever recall and, more importantly, the spark that was there in the Coventry was missing. It is an old cliche that you can only beat what is in front of you, but how you do it is vital and, in my opinion Caravaggio ran well below the Coventry form.

    Caravaggio is a Scat Daddy colt and we have seen these types sometimes being precocious, rather than a long term prospect. I feel the position of the O’Brien colt in the market for the Royal Ascot race offers excellent value on his opponents. Call it a gut feeling on my part if you wish but I have this notion that hearing that Caravaggio has been held up in his work and will miss the Guineas and then a potential retirement around Royal Ascot time, may not be too fanciful a forecast.

    Anyway, I backed Blue Point at 9/1 and with the little blip behind shock winner The Last Lion aside, an excellent 3rd in a well franked Dewhurst is the outstanding form on offer here. You just know that if Caravaggio misses the Guineas and Churchill wins it, Blue Point will go as short as a carrot for the Commonwealth Cup. People who turned their nose up at 9/1 will be scrambling like demented headless chickens for 3/1, without Blue Point necessarily having left his box.

    You know it makes sense, vote blue this summer, vote Blue Point and stay in the black, not the red.

    This was a partly political broadcast on behalf of the National Wealth Service. B-)

    Commonwealth Cup Blue Point 9/1

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1290492
    Sunspangled
    Participant
    • Total Posts 470

    Blue Point not entered in 2000G, entries released today.
    Caravaggio is entered.
    Reports from stable insider that Caravaggio has grown over winter and it’s all system go, whether that is for the Guineas or the Commonwealth Cup remains to be seen.

    #1290494
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 34556

    Similar reports to that of Air Force Blue who had an uninterrupted two year old campaign.
    I’m not touching Caravaggio with a barge pole until he has had a comeback run

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1290548
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    Aiden O’Brien will keep up the illusion that all is well right up until it becomes impossible to do so. It happens every year, it’s predictable and it’s his job to keep the belief going that the horse can be the next potential stallion for Coolmore.

    The horse may yet be the second coming who goes on to stuff Churchill for speed in the Guineas but you cannot trust what is said pre-season by Coolmore. Joey O’Brien waxed on about Cook Islands and Beacon Rock for the Derby early last season and they both turned out to be as slow as barges. They were not even up to running in what was a very modest Epsom Classic.

    I would have expected Caravaggio to have one more race last season and it is odd to me that they would pull stumps on his season in the first week of August. For me, there must have been some reason why he was never seen again.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1290586
    Sunspangled
    Participant
    • Total Posts 470

    Aidan O’Brien reported on the 18th August that Caravaggio had tweaked a muscle in his ribcage about 10 days previously, which would have coincided with the Phoenix Stakes. He said that it was looking doubtful that the horse would make the Middle Park, and if not, then ‘he’d probably finish off for the year as there isn’t much left for him’.

    #1290588
    Sunspangled
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    • Total Posts 470

    There hasn’t been any word from Ballydoyle/Coolmore regarding Caravaggio, or indeed any horse, this year as yet. The word on Caravaggio came via a friend from a member of staff who works with the horse and has no apparent agenda. Coolmore have already included Caravaggio in their stallion brochure, there’s a huge gap left in the stallion ranks in the US with the premature death of his sire, he’d already be covering mares there if something had gone wrong with him last year or over the winter.
    Of course, it’s early days yet for 2017 and the horses haven’t been doing any serious work yet, so I doubt anybody knows as yet whether Caravaggio, or indeed any horse, has made the necessary improvement from 2yo to 3yo.

    #1290624
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
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    It may be early days, yet I recall a clear move in the betting for Gleneagles early doors in his year. I pointed that out on this forum and it was in January that it became clear the money was coming for him and that the others were friendless in his stable.

    The big question with Caravaggio, even if at his best again, is whether he can cope with Churchill in the Guineas. Form, distance and breeding all favour the Galileo colt as a candidate for Newmarket, so will they oppose him? I have my doubts and it then becomes a question of whether they just accept Caravaggio as a pure sprinter and head for the Commonwealth Cup?

    With less questions and at three times the odds in some places, Blue Point looked the safer wager.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1290630
    Sunspangled
    Participant
    • Total Posts 470

    I wouldn’t back Caravaggio against Churchill in the Guineas regardless, I think Churchill is likely to be the better horse over a mile. I think that if Caravaggio runs in the Guineas, it will be either as a gentle prep for the Commonwealth Cup (Ballydoyle do like to use the Guineas as a prep!), and/or as a sighter to see if he stays the mile and could fill in for Churchill in the mile division (though they also have War Decree, and Cliffs of Moher who surprisingly hasn’t been entered in the Guineas, though entered in French), if Churchill subsequently steps up in distance.

    #1290633
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    Cliffs Of Moher looked a good prospect (RPR 104). Not sure what he beat in that maiden but he routed his field. I would probably have had an interest at double carpet for the Guineas but he looked and ran it in the style of a horse who would need to have his tactics altered to get a mile at 3yo and his Dam’s (Wave by Dansili) only win came at 5F.

    Only two firms quote Cliffs Of Moher for the Commonwealth Cup (14/1) but he could develop into a player for that one.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1290651
    Sunspangled
    Participant
    • Total Posts 470

    A Galileo colt winning a G1 over 6f would tick a last box for Galileo, they might be tempted to give it a go if Caravaggio doesn’t run.

    #1294326
    Avatar photohein bollow
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    • Total Posts 986

    Could anybody give a word on Mrs Danvers?
    I know she’s a low budget horse, but she couldn’t do more than winning all here races so far.
    She even won the Cornwallis Stakes in a faster time than Quiet Reflection one year before as I read..
    I would be grateful for your opininions.

    #1294328
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 34556

    This was posted today from the trainers website

    Our star of 2016, the 5 times unbeaten 2yo Mrs Danvers, is primed to front that challenge. Can we dream that she can win a Group 1? We will wait and see but in the meantime experiment at 6f at Group 3 level. She has wintered very well anyway and her spring work is so far just as impressive as last year.

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

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