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How on earth is Await The Dawn qualified to run in the Classic? As a Gr3 winner only he would struggle to make the field. Zenyatta is far from a certainty for the Classic. Only beat a moderate field a length last year and I’ve seen nothing to say she’s improved beating up on B graders of late. Only just defeated a very average animal last start. It wont take a superstar to beat the mare just a better than lamentable Gr1 horse.
"It’s not what you do but the way that you do it" the song goes.
I’d like to apolgies on her behalf for beating only a moderate field last year that contained Rip Van Winkle Gio Ponti and Twice Over.
Zenyatta has beating everything that’s been put in front of her in amzing style and has become a living legend. While the biased of Timeform may not rate her the best in the World there ar 40 million US racing fans and more than a few million on this side of the Atlantic who would dispute that.As it turns out if Cape Blanco were to turn up and run like he did the other day he is the one horse who could perhaps take the sting out of her tail…..So far nothing has managed to get to the bottom of her and it would take bad luck or a wonder horse to do so if she turns up 100% spot on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTcTiYuY9AQ
She was stretched to her limit there, although it was still a great performance. Speaking of terrible rides and jockeys….
Fist,
Your theory about Rip Van Winkle being a miler and not truly staying 1m2f falls down when looking at the way he travelled.
In the Champion RVW was beaten before the mile pole. So would not have won at a mile that day. Wasn’t as if he cruised up on the bridle and didn’t get home.
In the International he needed every yard of the trip to get his head in front. At the mile pole there he looked third best (at best).
In the Breeders Cup, beaten before at halfway, nothing to do with the trip. Could it have been the surface, or more than likely a long hard season that caused that poor run?Value Is EverythingTimeform biased?
Best horse: Sea Bird (French)
Best filly/mare: Allez France (French)
Just behind Sea Bird: Ribot (Italian)When the official International ratings are made, all the countries get together and fight their corner. It is they who are "biased".
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Fist,
Your theory about Rip Van Winkle being a miler and not truly staying 1m2f falls down when looking at the way he travelled.
In the Champion RVW was beaten before the mile pole. So would not have won at a mile that day. Wasn’t as if he cruised up on the bridle and didn’t get home.
In the International he needed every yard of the trip to get his head in front. At the mile pole there he looked third best (at best).
In the Breeders Cup, beaten before at halfway, nothing to do with the trip. Could it have been the surface, or more than likely a long hard season that caused that poor run?So that’s Fist, me, and Aidan O’Brien who are wrong about the horse then, Ginger?
Will you ever stop trying to teach people about things you don’t have a clue about yourself?Instead of just saying "you’re wrong", please tell me why I am wrong by explaining my points Reet. I do want to learn.
Why do you think Rip Van Winkle needed all the trip to win the International, if in your opinion he’s a miler?
So Aidan O’Brien believes RVW is better at a mile,
because he shows so much speed, shock!
Says the same about every horse he’s ever trained. Cumani, O’Brien, don’t believe all you hear from trainers guys.
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Ginger
There’s a world of difference between not believing everything trainers say, and actually learning from those at the top of their profession when they pass on useful pointers, particularly when they confirm what one already believes to be the truth.
AoB said of RVW only last week:"He is basically a miler who gets a mile and a quarter on quick ground"
which really has little to do with hype, or him ‘being all speed’.
I have made much the same point for over a year on this forum, and there’s little doubt (imo) that we both arrived at the same conclusion from the same formbook evidence, so it might help you to actually figure out why.I honestly don’t know what to make of Cape Blanco. Considering I had him down as future Ascot Gold Cup winner it shows you what I know :0(
You certainly don’t, you said he wouldn’t get near winning a group one.
JohnJ
So again Reet, why did RVW need all the trip to get in front at York if he’s just a miler? Or are you just repeating what the trainer says and have not got a clue yourself?
Explain yourself, this is a dicussion forum.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
So again Reet, why did RVW need all the trip to get in front at York if he’s just a miler? Or are you just repeating what the trainer says and have not got a clue yourself?
Explain yourself, this is a dicussion forum.
Jesus H Christ Ginger, what part of
"I have made much the same point for over a year on this forum"
are you having dificulty with?
The International was run at a slow early pace, on quickish ground, over the sharpest of all the major all-aged 10f gp1 courses, (which is undoubtedly why RVW was targeted specifically at the race in the first place).
Knowing his limitations, he was held up out the back (far from his customary running style over 1m), and only produced toward the closing stages to narrowly defeat 2 horses he is probably 10lbs better than anyway.You’re correct in your assertion that this is a discussion forum, though that’s supposedly intelligent discussion, rather than pontification on subjects you have little understanding of.
"Only produced towards the closing stages" Reet?
Firstly, he International was run over 10 1/2 furlongs.
The whip was up 2f out, make no mistake he needed every inch of that 10 AND 1/2 furlongs that day. Only produced late, the reason he was produced late was that he wasn’t able get there any earlier
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This is getting tiresome!
York (though 88 yards further) is by some way the easiest of all the tracks that host all-aged 10f gp1 races. Of all those races, it is also run at the likeliest time of the year for the faster ground which favours the doubtful stayer, (hence, RVW’s early season programme was geared specifically toward it).
In the race itself, he was committed as late as possible, but had to be asked a question around 2 out when Byword shot a couple of lengths clear. As a horse who normally wins his races with his long stride rather than a burst of speed ( J Murtagh’s words, not mine), it’s unsurprising that he took a while to reach top gear, and it was class – not stamina – that enabled him to prevail in the end.
That’s how I saw it, quite clearly that’s how AoB saw it too, your opinion may be different – you’re very welcome to it.
I hope it serves you well, because you’re certainly not going to learn anything from anyone else, and i’m too long in the tooth to waste any more time trying to educate pork.I’m not willing to learn because I disagree with you?!
I am however touched that you took the time to "educate" me
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thm
Apologies!
The latter comments weren’t aimed at you – just the monkey who’d jumped on your backSo at the mile pole this "miler" did not have the pace of Byword and Twice Over.
Strangely enough: This miler’s performance in the Eclipse (at Sandown, not that sharp York track
) last year, would’ve been good enough to win any of this season’s European 10f contests.Agreed, Rip does not have a turn of foot, he’s a grinder. Who’s equally effective at a truly run mile or 10f.
The Oranutan
Value Is Everything
Zenyatta has beating everything that’s been put in front of her in amzing style and has become a living legend. While the biased of Timeform may not rate her the best in the World there ar 40 million US racing fans and more than a few million on this side of the Atlantic who would dispute that.
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