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I reserve the right to continue to comment!
He has so far not beaten but destroyed the likes of Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Immortal Verse, Strong Suit etc… The only top miler he never met was Goldikova, and well, he has trounced the last three horses to have beaten Goldikova in Europe.
No Aussie-based milers worthy of a listing?
Stands to reason if we’ve got a middle distance galloper capable of going over and winning multiple group 1’s and a sprinter capable of the same, we might just have an ok miler tucked away somewhere too?
Ya reckon I might be onto something?
Google ‘More Joyous’ and educate yourself a little.
Don’t stop there though. Our miler depth is actually half decent, you might be pleasantly surprised!
I reserve the right to continue to comment!
He has so far not beaten but destroyed the likes of Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Immortal Verse, Strong Suit etc… The only top miler he never met was Goldikova, and well, he has trounced the last three horses to have beaten Goldikova in Europe.
No Aussie-based milers worthy of a listing?
Stands to reason if we’ve got a middle distance galloper capable of going over and winning multiple group 1’s and a sprinter capable of the same, we might just have an ok miler tucked away somewhere too?
Ya reckon I might be onto something?
Google ‘More Joyous’ and educate yourself a little.
Don’t stop there though. Our miler depth is actually half decent, you might be pleasantly surprised!
you Aussies kill me!
Hilarious"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I reserve the right to continue to comment!
He has so far not beaten but destroyed the likes of Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Immortal Verse, Strong Suit etc… The only top miler he never met was Goldikova, and well, he has trounced the last three horses to have beaten Goldikova in Europe.
No Aussie-based milers worthy of a listing?
Stands to reason if we’ve got a middle distance galloper capable of going over and winning multiple group 1’s and a sprinter capable of the same, we might just have an
ok miler
tucked away somewhere too?
Ya reckon I might be onto something?
Google ‘More Joyous’ and educate yourself a little.
Don’t stop there though. Our miler depth is actually
half decent
, you might be pleasantly surprised!
Ok miler
tucked away somewhere? Well, wouldn’t surprise me if you had one indeed.
Half-decent miler depth?
Well, you may well be right on that one too.
But, you’ll find that the Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Goldikova, Excelebration etc… I originally referred to are a bit more than "ok" or "half-decent". Your own superlatives are I guess quite representative of Helmet’s and Jimmy Choux’s showings in Dubai and Hong Hong.
But eh, let’s not run away from the original debate. As I said, I have no particular issue with aussie racing in general, and once again I do consider Black Caviar to be a proven freak indeed. But, my issue here is with your ridiculously hilarious statement, which you now seems to be running away from.
This isn’t stallion hype like frankel and syt this is a proven freak at the very top over and over again in the best sprinting nation on the planet.
Yet, as I said, even allowing for the exception of Goldikova and the ‘mighty’ More Joyous (giggles), Frankel has so far destroyed pretty much all of the world’s top milers (Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Immortal Verse, Strong Suit). On the other hand, bar the likes of Hay List and co., Black Caviar has never meet Val De Ra, JJ The Jet Plane, Rocket Man, Dream Ahead, Deacon Blues, Moonlight Cloud and not even Sepoy of this world.
So, taking that into consideration, how the heck can Black Caviar be considered a proven freak and Frankel only stallion hype when the latter has been far more tested at a mile than Black Caviar has ever been at the sprint level, considering their respective opposition? If Frankel is not a proven freak at a mile, well blimey….Maybe I’m not the one who needs educating after all.
Jimmy Choux probably ran below his best in HK, Helmet likewise. That said, anyone saying that Frankel is just stallion hype is crazy, but Black Caviar has also proven herself as a freak.
I reserve the right to continue to comment!
He has so far not beaten but destroyed the likes of Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Immortal Verse, Strong Suit etc… The only top miler he never met was Goldikova, and well, he has trounced the last three horses to have beaten Goldikova in Europe.
No Aussie-based milers worthy of a listing?
Stands to reason if we’ve got a middle distance galloper capable of going over and winning multiple group 1’s and a sprinter capable of the same, we might just have an
ok miler
tucked away somewhere too?
Ya reckon I might be onto something?
Google ‘More Joyous’ and educate yourself a little.
Don’t stop there though. Our miler depth is actually
half decent
, you might be pleasantly surprised!
Ok miler
tucked away somewhere? Well, wouldn’t surprise me if you had one indeed.
Half-decent miler depth?
Well, you may well be right on that one too.
But, you’ll find that the Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Goldikova, Excelebration etc… I originally referred to are a bit more than "ok" or "half-decent". Your own superlatives are I guess quite representative of Helmet’s and Jimmy Choux’s showings in Dubai and Hong Hong.
But eh, let’s not run away from the original debate. As I said, I have no particular issue with aussie racing in general, and once again I do consider Black Caviar to be a proven freak indeed. But, my issue here is with your ridiculously hilarious statement, which you now seems to be running away from.
This isn’t stallion hype like frankel and syt this is a proven freak at the very top over and over again in the best sprinting nation on the planet.
Yet, as I said, even allowing for the exception of Goldikova and the ‘mighty’ More Joyous (giggles), Frankel has so far destroyed pretty much all of the world’s top milers (Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Immortal Verse, Strong Suit). On the other hand, bar the likes of Hay List and co., Black Caviar has never meet Val De Ra, JJ The Jet Plane, Rocket Man, Dream Ahead, Deacon Blues, Moonlight Cloud and not even Sepoy of this world.
So, taking that into consideration, how the heck can Black Caviar be considered a proven freak and Frankel only stallion hype when the latter has been far more tested at a mile than Black Caviar has ever been at the sprint level, considering their respective opposition? If Frankel is not a proven freak at a mile, well blimey….Maybe I’m not the one who needs educating after all.
Firstly educate yourself before you make stupid comments! More Joyous(giggles)!!! She has had 23 starts 16 wins 6 group 1 races and quite a few group 2’s. There has always been top milers produced here. And where did Canford Cliffs and co that you mentioned win their races? Mostly on UK soil,but you are like many,you just naturally assume the racing world revolves around you there:) And Val De Ra!!! Would make a nice listed class mare here thats about it,and JJ The Jet Plane wouldnt be fast enough for her gallop partner.And Frankel has won 9 straight mate Black Caviar has won 19 and a lot more Group 1’s and she has met every bit as good a horse as Frankel for their respective distances.Cherry picking results like Helmet is laughable,we could do the same,and um Jimmy Choux is A New Zealander!
I’ve said this before & I’ll say it again. A decent form line can be taken through Ortensia. She was beaten 2.5L in the 2010 HK Sprint by JJTJP & Rocket Man. She has also been beaten by Black Caviar on numerous occaisions by 5+L. She has nothing to prove.
Helmet was getting beat here in Melbourne before going overseas – so the fact he got beat in Dubai did not surprise one bit – maybe he hasn’t come up this time in? He was always slightly enigmatic as a 2yo and early 3yo anyway.
About Ortensia – I think her records show she is a horse that races best when kept fresh. 1st up her record in Australia is pretty good…..2nd up and further I’ve always thought she tended to drop off a little.
In Dubai she was first up and won. To shed some light on her clash with JJ JET PLane and Rocket Man in 2010 – 5 weeks earlier she raced first up at Flemington against Black Caviar and got beat 6.5 lengths. 2nd up went to HK against Rocket Man and JJJP and came 5th beaten 1.6 lengths.
Read into that want you want I guess.
Incidentally I think any match race between BC and the protected cream puff whoops sorry Frankel (ha ha now I’m giggling) should be run over 1400 on a flat course. All that’s going to happen if they did it over 1600 at Ascot is they’ll turn it into a test of stamina and BC is a sprinter and that’s all you need to know about what will happen. If you’re going to choose a middle ground then it needs to be a true middle ground not weighted heavily to one or the other.
Will never happen anyway. CP’s owners would have too much to lose and nothing to gain. He’s already worth a packet, why would they want to take on a freak without everything in their favour beforehand? Answer is they wouldn’t.
AIC, once again running away from your original comment. At the expense of repeating myself, I would still like to know how according to you, Black Caviar is a proven freak and Frankel only "stallion hype", when the latter has beaten most of the top milers around (Canford Cliffs, Excelebration, Dream Ahead, Strong Suit, Immortal Verse) and has been more tested at a mile than has Black Caviar at a sprint level, having never met the likes of Rocket Man, JJ The Jet Plane, Val De Ra, Dream Ahead, Deacon Blues, Sepoy etc…?
…or you can always grow a pair and ackowledge the fact that your comment about Frankel being mere stallion hype was complete BS.
And where did Canford Cliffs and co that you mentioned win their races?
Mostly on UK soil,but you are like many,you just naturally assume the racing world revolves around you there:) And Val De Ra!!! Would make a nice listed class mare here thats about it,and JJ The Jet Plane wouldnt be fast enough for her gallop partner.
Cherry picking results like Helmet is laughable,we could do the same,and um Jimmy Choux is A New Zealander!
Hahaha, oh the irony. Val De Ra only a listed class mare, and JJ The Jet Plane only a gallop partner, despite winning Group 1s in Dubai and Hong Kong, beating your Group 1 mare winning Ortensia in the process. Hahaha, and we are the ones who assume the racing world revolves around us.
And, not cherry picking anything here, just mentioning the most recent international performances of milers from down under in the last year or so. And, ummm, didn’t the New Zealander win YOUR rosehill Guineas and finish second in YOUR Cox Plate. In addition, weren’t So You think, Phar Lap, Carbine, Sunline, Tulloch, Might And Power etc… also New Zealand bred horses, or are they considered Aussie racehorses only when they cover themselves with glory?
Bad news about Frankel.
The horse struck into himself whilst working and has picked up a "superficial" injury.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
And where did Canford Cliffs and co that you mentioned win their races?
Mostly on UK soil,but you are like many,you just naturally assume the racing world revolves around you there:) And Val De Ra!!! Would make a nice listed class mare here thats about it,and JJ The Jet Plane wouldnt be fast enough for her gallop partner.
Cherry picking results like Helmet is laughable,we could do the same,and um Jimmy Choux is A New Zealander!
Hahaha, oh the irony. Val De Ra only a listed class mare, and JJ The Jet Plane only a gallop partner, despite winning Group 1s in Dubai and Hong Kong, beating your Group 1 mare winning Ortensia in the process. Hahaha, and we are the ones who assume the racing world revolves around us.
And, not cherry picking anything here, just mentioning the most recent international performances of milers from down under in the last year or so. And, ummm, didn’t the New Zealander win YOUR rosehill Guineas and finish second in YOUR Cox Plate. In addition, weren’t So You think, Phar Lap, Carbine, Sunline, Tulloch, Might And Power etc… also New Zealand bred horses, or are they considered Aussie racehorses only when they cover themselves with glory?
We are not talking about Ortensia are we! We are talking about Black Caviar and JJ wouldnt blow wind up her a*se! Jimmy Choux is trained in New Zealand!And get your facts right the Rosehill Guineas and Cox Plate are over 2000m and 2040m so those races dont make Jimmy Choux a miler!And ummm havnt we only sent 2 horses over to England at a mile and beyond Both Group 1 winners!!!
Sea Bird 11,
Oh by the way the mighty More Joyous (giggles) won the 2 million $ Doncaster Hcp 1600m Group 1 yesterday (giggles),she carried 57.5kg with a 52kg limit. I would say with first prizemoney of 1.2 million the owners would be giggling and that takes her to around 4 million in prizemoney about 7 Group 1 wins and about 17 wins from 24 starts (giggles)
Beating who? Shoot Out by 3/4 lengths, who was just as easily despatched by Manighar. The same Manighar who could not win a race in Europe since 2009 and now has three historic Group 1s down under. Yep, I’m sure Frankel must be shivering at the prospect of meeting her. She would not get anywhere near Excelebration, nevermind Frankel.
Sea BirdII, your answer is simplistic in many ways. Luca Cumani trained Manighar as a 15 furlong plus horse. Black Caviar’s trainer Peter Moody took the horse over in November last year and has injected speed into horse. He was a 2YO winner for the Aga Khan and Alain de Royer Dupre. Moody’s training feat has been nothing less short of amazing. Peter Moody has been champion trainer in Victoria for a number of years, a premiership winning trainer. He is not riding on the coat tails of Black Caviar as Sir Henry Cecil is not riding on the coat tails of Frankel. Both champion trainers in their own right but one horse they will be remembered forever.
Beating who? Shoot Out by 3/4 lengths, who was just as easily despatched by Manighar. The same Manighar who could not win a race in Europe since 2009 and now has three historic Group 1s down under. Yep, I’m sure Frankel must be shivering at the prospect of meeting her. She would not get anywhere near Excelebration, nevermind Frankel.
No! it shows up the real class of a trainer! Moody is a class trainer,he did what Cumani didnt,he found the horses right distance and put speed into him.Better trainers,more versatile,simple as that!
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