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Miss Woodford im not trying to knock the yankee or aussie sprinters but if you think they are not pre-trained on nandrolone you are very much misinformed in the uk steroids are illegal therefore our sprinters don’t get any help and as such are very much at a disadvantage
Just because they are illegal here, it doesn’t mean they do not get used. Or are you incredibly naive?
Dao dao was a very nice horse I’d love to have owned him but where has anyone suggested he was an elite class Aussie miler?
He’s no superstar but was good enough to run the best in Oz (Whobegotyou, Typhoon Tracy) to 2 lengths or closer. There’s probably a larger gap between the Cityscapes/Sahpresas and Excelebration/Frankel and I think I might be generous to Dao Dao as well. Once again hard to draw comparisons between Aussie and European milers but general impression in Asia is that the best Europeans are the cream of the crop.
Of course Oz sprinters are a breed apart which should be applauded, with Star Witness (beaten 4L by a hard-held Black Caviar) showing himself to be as good as the best European sprinters. Black Caviar and Hay List (and maybe Sepoy) a dominant tag-team in the sprints while Frankel and Excelebration rule the mile division.
Winning margins are not absolute proof, especially in Australia. It’s not as simple as horse a beat horse b by 2.75 lengths therefore blah blah blah
And why on earth would you use dao dao as the measuring stick when you have had Aussie milers actually race at ascot against your own? Haradasun and Starcraft ring any bells?
Yes but you keep thinking everything UK is lengths ahead of everything else….folks i have been in top stables in the states and in oz where steroids were liberaly used pre-training, and i understand the reason they are used under vet supervision in those country’s, if you can find a vet that will supply you with them here let me know they are not used here fact, the aussies have some monster sprinters and BC looks the best of them and shes a great but its impossible to compare her with Frankel who has never contested a sprint and has never been on steroids
folks i have been in top stables in the states and in oz where steroids were liberaly used pre-training, and i understand the reason they are used under vet supervision in those country’s, if you can find a vet that will supply you with them here let me know they are not used here fact, the aussies have some monster sprinters and BC looks the best of them and shes a great but its impossible to compare her with Frankel who has never contested a sprint and has never been on steroids
Frankel has never contested any race outside his comfort zone full stop. Why would he start against the best sprinter we’ve seen in years? If they clash it’ll be BC stepping outside her comfort zone certainly not the other way round.
Your steroids comments are laughable. I know my mare has had something in the past to stimulate her appetite but if you are saying no horse in the UK has ever had a steroid of any type and no vet in the UK could source you such a thing then I’m thinking you live in dreamland.
The thing that renders the whole point pointless is that in europe and north america breeders are not trying to produce sprinters. Black Caviar is exceptional and relatively great, I suspect Frankel is not quite as great as all the English think but still relatively exceptional. Would love to see Black Caviar in Ascot this NH summer but… when the money is laid down.
Himself, i’m sure that Timeform had Lonhr as their World Champion Miler of 2004 so to say he wasn’t up with any of your horses in the past 40 years maybe a little exageration. But then again, these are the same people whom have Frankel 8lbs ahead of Black Caviar so I excuse you if you think that they have no idea!
I suspect Frankel is not quite as great as all the English think but still relatively exceptional.
Ah yes those biased English hey?! What do you mean like Tom Queally, Johnny Murtagh, Frankie Dettori and The WORLD Thoroughbred rankings?
I suspect this plastic Irishman is HOPING he is not as great as he clearly is!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I suspect Frankel is not quite as great as all the English think but still relatively exceptional.
Ah yes those biased English hey?! What do you mean like Tom Queally, Johnny Murtagh, Frankie Dettori and The WORLD Thoroughbred rankings?
I suspect this plastic Irishman is HOPING he is not as great as he clearly is!
What a nice change: the English v Irish, instead of the English v Australians! In Fairness to plasticpaddy, Jonibake he does rate Frankel exceptional and only suspects that Frankel may not be as good as thought there.If Frankel isn’t the same horse when tried at 10f one could argue that he is right,and the best horse ever tag would probably not apply.If he proves he is just as dominant at 10f well he would be right up there or superior to the best,though if she keeps going the way she is BC may have a reasonable claim as well,and as for the World Thoroughbred rankings,some of our best here have been given a rating that doesn’t appear to truly reflect their performances.
I suspect Frankel is not quite as great as all the English think but still relatively exceptional.
Ah yes those biased English hey?! What do you mean like Tom Queally, Johnny Murtagh, Frankie Dettori and The WORLD Thoroughbred rankings?
I suspect this plastic Irishman is HOPING he is not as great as he clearly is!
What a nice change: the English v Irish, instead of the English v Australians! In Fairness to plasticpaddy, Jonibake he does rate Frankel exceptional and only suspects that Frankel may not be as good as thought there.If Frankel isn’t the same horse when tried at 10f one could argue that he is right,and the best horse ever tag would probably not apply.If he proves he is just as dominant at 10f well he would be right up there or superior to the best,though if she keeps going the way she is BC may have a reasonable claim as well,and as for the World Thoroughbred rankings,some of our best here have been given a rating that doesn’t appear to truly reflect their performances.
It’s the "English" word i took exception to as it implies we are the only ones that rate him that highly and that we are building him up because he is from here. The truth is he is universally respected as was the great Sea The Stars from IRELAND.
BTW Jolly – i watched BC this morning and believe it or not that performance impressed me almost more than her others. I think the distance is on the short side for her now but she showed battling qualities as well as her class and was pulling clear in the last 100 metres. She is an awesome sight and I can’t wait to see her in the flesh at Ascot this summer.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
double post
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I agree Jonibake, i think her last 2 wins being close to her best,the way she did it both times under different circumstances.I just wished she had tried her hand at a mile here to see how strongly she ran it out and if it was with the same authority i would have loved to see her tackle a race like the the Queen Anne there,a tougher mile yes but i think she would handle it,but maybe never know.
It seems to me , if I recall correctly that Sheik Mo took his horses out of Henry’s yard when he would not travel overseas to race internationally.Are we about to see the same scenario unfold with Frankel? Is he to be crowned the best horse in GB rather than the best in the world.I believe Black Cavier is traveling to take on the best in the world. If Franlkel refuses to travel can he be proclaimed the best in the world?
Of course Frankel can be considered the best in the World Andyod, if he puts up performance/s better than any other racehorse in the World.
Black Caviar is already rightly recognised as the best sprinter in the World, and she’s not yet come to Europe or USA.
What’s so special about racing in the USA?
Value Is EverythingFrankel seemingly became more tractable towards the end of his 3 year old career. But he’s never been on a plane before.
Is it worth taking the risk of putting a horse who can be exitable on to a plane for a long journey? Frankel was also losing his summer coat at Ascot before the QEII. Had he raced in the USA last year it would have been in hot conditions in a winter coat. Good chance Frankel would not have shown his form.
Value Is EverythingOf course Frankel can be considered the best in the World Andyod, if he puts up performance/s better than any other racehorse in the World.
Over a mile Ginge,lets not confuse the fact that ‘Frankel’ wouldn’t beat a 100 rated handicapper who gets a 11/2m over that very trip………The trip of true legends.He’s the worlds best miler,thats it!
Frankel seemingly became more tractable towards the end of his 3 year old career. But he’s never been on a plane before.
Is it worth taking the risk of putting a horse who can be exitable on to a plane for a long journey? Frankel was also losing his summer coat at Ascot before the QEII. Had he raced in the USA last year it would have been in hot conditions in a winter coat. Good chance Frankel would not have shown his form.
"Hot conditions", you say? http://www.wunderground.com/history/air … e=Kentucky
There are also these things called "clippers", steeplechase trainers have been using them for years.
Frankel didn’t/doesn’t really have any excuse not to go to the Breeders Cup. With no Goldikova or Court Vision this year the Mile ought to be up for consideration. Zenyatta’s connections used the "she doesn’t ship well" excuse to get out of running on the east coast, but even she showed up for the Breeders Cup at Churchill. Didn’t do that bad considering.
It seems to me , if I recall correctly that Sheik Mo took his horses out of Henry’s yard when he would not travel overseas to race internationally.Are we about to see the same scenario unfold with Frankel? Is he to be crowned the best horse in GB rather than the best in the world.I believe Black Cavier is traveling to take on the best in the world. If Franlkel refuses to travel can he be proclaimed the best in the world?
I suppose you have a point, in the same way that as Arkle only ever raced in the UK you can only say Arkle is maybe the best UK steeplechaser as he didn’t take on the rest of the world.
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