- This topic has 645 replies, 143 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
- Total Posts 17716
The answer is there are none because american trainers would consider this a near impossible taske,perhaps the reason why aiden is so respected by the racing public in america, the fact that he has gained success is incredible,to win bacl to back victories with high chaparal after his european campaigns was just a superb achievement,one without the use of lasix you will note……. Giants Causeway going so close in the classic when kinane unlucky with the whip was a near brilliant achievement,hence the reason it will cost you $100,000 if you want his services in america,and plenty do!!!!! Whilst they have had dissapointments they have also had success,and as already mentioned I firmly believe they are now really gearing certain horses towards more success rather than early season success in europe.
Are you going to believe your own eyes or what I am telling you?Last year by this time Ballydoyle had won every derby trial. This year nothing,not even a placed horse in the trials.Yesterday at Lingfield is an example.So what is with the excuses about training for the BC ? That is all bull.The yard is simply not firing for whatever reason.Nobody is talking. Last year’s crop of tyo’s were outstanding so there must be a problem. I believe since Aidan admitted that Beethoven was coughing that there is a bug in the yard,whether low grade or high grade we dont know.Todays race at Leopardstown may tell us if it is still there or not.However it is my opinion that it will take the best part of a year to get over it.
For a yard not firing they have just had their 14th winner of the season. Because they are not cleaning up the big races does not mean there has to be a bug or something wrong with the yard. O’Brien has had runners outside of the UK….
- Total Posts 17716
Talk of a stable bug is utter rubbish proven there by midas. At the end of the day the english derby trials are meaningless to ballydoyle,I doubt they care about them or worry about who wins them. Coolmore have the breeding industry sewn up at the moment and have the luxury of now looking to dominate the breeding industry whilst not compromising their domenence of their european operation.
Bug lol…No Bug their
20l with 3 Furlong to go and still hosed up. Quite taken by that performance
What I am saying is that it is a sea change without warning when Ballydoyle fail to produce a derby candidate during the work up to the derby. We have yet to see a worthwhile derby horse,certainly not amongst the 14 winners. Sorry but the numbers mean nothing unless they include an impressive Derby candidate. Numbers are not to the point.Perhaps they keep the lesser candidaates in a separate yard.You have to win the big ones if you are Ballydoyle.So far no cigar.
By the way it is not a sin to have horses coughing.It is a worksite hazard.
The win today was ponderous to say the least.Midas Touch is no Derby horse.Maybe eight lengths behind Janvermeer ."What I am saying is that it is a sea change without warning when Ballydoyle fail to produce a derby candidate during the work up to the derby. We have yet to see a worthwhile derby horse,certainly not amongst the 14 winners."
They have 5 of the first 9 in the Betting..
Jan Vermeer Group 1 Winner
Midas Touch Group 2 (Ballydoyle Prep Derby)
St Nicholas Abbey Group 1 Winner
Mikail Glinka (Listed and Highly Regarded)
Cape Blanco (Group 2 Winner and big Ballydoyle 2yr old Trial)Horses Missing the Race:
Joshua Tree
Flying Cross
Steinbeck
Fencing Master
BeethovenOf their 14 winners no Derby horses but Chester they ran the Dogs in Encompassing and Rocket Man was injured during the race. Lingfield they ran Don Carlos who is a rag and the Horse that died. The trials are trials. They have no importance to Ballydoyle or not on their agenda.
"You have to win the big ones if you are Ballydoyle.So far no cigar."
What Big Races have they not won?
1000 Guineas( Had no Horses capable of winning it)
2000 Guineas (Farce of a race but Horse simply not good enough on the day)
Ganay( No Horse for the race)The 2000 Guineas is the only race of importance and St Nick did not deliver due to a number of circumstances that where against him on the day.
"The win today was ponderous to say the least.Midas Touch is no Derby horse.Maybe eight lengths behind Janvermeer ."
Midas Touch was preferred to Jan Vermeer by Johnny in France but lost his action on the Bottomless ground. He beat a 90 rated horse by 7l in his maiden. He has won in race Pat Smullen described as "Rode like a very good Race". I can’t believe people are writing off a Derrinstown winner after 4 runs and won first time out. Quite unbelievable the negativity that has griped the Horse Racing World over Ballydoyle’s Slow start but numerical their best ever.
"The horses have been very behind, but we are getting there" Aidan O’Brien…."but when Mikhail Glinka got injured we decided to come here"How about Mikail Glinka being injured.I did not know about that.Not so good.
- Total Posts 17716
I made the point of how I feel this "bug" will have a possitive effect on the prices of Aidens horses,point proven there,when would we ever see 2/1 for an O Brien firsr string in the Derrinstown with just 3 rivals,one of whom was a likely pace setting stable mate!!!!!!! There is no bug imo and the idea is nonsense, take advantage with more over priced runners to come especially on their 2nd outing as history has shown with the yard
I’d be very surprised if there is a general bug. I’ve been to Ballydoyle; it is a dispersed, vast site with several "isolation" stables used for quarantine or when a horse develops suspicious symptoms. So although their horses can pick up a bug just like any other they have all the facilities to stop it spreading.
I think many of the performances so far have been a mixture of backward horses and … what’s the euphamism … tenderly handled horses. Combination of a long cold winter and early spring, spell of cold weather last week or so, and a definite desire to do better at the Breeders Cup. For all the horses they send over there that have proven to be very good in Europe their strike rate is poor. I don’t think you can have a horse up to winning a classic early May and at the Breeders Cup early November. Even Sea The Stars didn’t do that.
I don’t believe that misjudgement in the training approach was the cause of their poor showing at the BC.Spencer threw away one race at least and not getting out of the gate caused them to not get into contention in others.I would put it down to maybe the wrong approach to riding rather than to training.Kinane lost his whip and was beaten a head.Beethoven was shuffeled back to last in his race at the first turn and Moore never recovered from that.Murtagh was left at the gate at least twice.So I dont think you can attribute failure to training tactics.They had a couple of seconds. They do need to learn to spring from the gate but that can be done during the year.
- Total Posts 17716
True there were issues with gate start, im sure they will work on it. However in previous seasons they have asked their horses to maitain their form from early May to Novemeber, this is an incredibly difficult ask for any horse and as such I think they have now adopted a new approach and as such won’t ask so much of their horses so early in the year.
Ballydoyle couldn’t care less about not winning the English trials so far, an English trial adds nothing whatsoever to stud value, its the big days themselves that count. Granted they did not win the guineas this year ,but they don’t have to as their sires were responsible for the 1,2,3,4 in the 1000 guineas. They usually either win the 2000 guineas or sire the winner. They have the Guineas sire market all wrapped up, they do not need to produce another sire for that market, if ever there was a time to direct their efforts to getting that Breeders Cup Classic winner it is now, and also the other Breeders Cup races.
They are purely setting the bar even higher, they have done basically all there is to do in Europe, why keep settling fot the same level of success???? Aim higher…
Time will tell and my theory of their re direction in training regeime might not be correct, but I stand by it, and I expect the biggesst and fingers crossed best Breeders Cup efforts ever this year… The one thing I would say is if they want Breeders Cup success they need a top class American jockey, not Johnny Murtagh, Johnny is a great jockey but the fact remains you need an expert top class American jockey who rides over there week in week out and knows his trade as well as Johnny does over here..
I realize that Aidan thinks his horses are behind. I hope he has not the gall to suggest it is the weather.He is surrounded by national hunt horses who work in all kinds of weather and also Tommy Stack is I believe next door and his horses don’t seem to be behind.So lets have the real reason why Ballydoyle are behind.The bug.
The one thing I would say is if they want Breeders Cup success they need a top class American jockey, not Johnny Murtagh, Johnny is a great jockey but the fact remains you need an expert top class American jockey who rides over there week in week out and knows his trade as well as Johnny does over here..
Remember Ridgewood Pearl & Kalanisi? Nowt wrong with Johnny on board either of them Stateside. Why pass over a man who knows the horses inside out for someone like Gomez or Velasquez who would be sitting on them for the first time? If Ballydoyle want more winners in America they will have to reassess their stance regarding running their horses on medication.
I realize that Aidan thinks his horses are behind. I hope he has not the gall to suggest it is the weather.He is surrounded by national hunt horses who work in all kinds of weather and also Tommy Stack is I believe next door and his horses don’t seem to be behind.So lets have the real reason why Ballydoyle are behind.The bug.
Stack’s are always well forward at the start of the season a bit like Noel Meade’s string at the start of the NH season. That’s always been the way for as long as I can remember. People are reading too much into Ballydoyle’s results so far this season. Some of the horses they’ve had out so far are just not very good – Mikael Glinka, Viscount Nelson, Dance On By, Rocket Man, Encompassing. Other horses like Fame And Glory and Age Of Aquarius clearly needed the run and weren’t knocked about. St Nicholas Abbey was a disappointment at Newmarket but I think time will prove that he was never going to be quick enough to be a Guineas. Watch him clean up at 1m4+.
Also the reason Tommy Stacks Horses are so forward is that he was training at Dundalk for over a month when other Trainers were sitting twiddling their thumbs.
Mr Watchman is the same.
The common theme between both yards is masses of Huge Costly animals from John Magnier. This simply is the way they operate. Andre Fabre in France with Coolmore Stock was the same.
Is this not a continuation of a long term decline in AOB’s strike rate? In 2003 the strike rate peaked at around 30%, it has fallen every year since to a very average 15% in 2009. Runners overseas can be layed very profitably so the all eggs in one BC basket theory would seem commercial suicide. Far easier to win UK Group 1’s against weak opposition.
- Total Posts 17716
Isn’t it just possible that we’re now seeing the full effects of a Danehill/Sadler’s Wells hangover?
Look at the current batch of 2yo’s from Coolmore listed on this site. Not exactly the kind of quality and speed you’d seen in the past. Danehill was a very hard act to follow.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.