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I think there was a thread about this on here but I can’t find it, so in case anyone is interested in Mr Curley and his recent betting coup – today’s Independent, an interview with Chris McGrath:-
Just when you thought he’d had enough and was relaxing somwhere with his feet up…..he WAS! Only they were buried snuggly right up the bookies arseholes!
What a man
Only wish I knew him!Thanks for the links, Ugly Mare, and full marks to Chris McGrath for an interesting pair of articles.
Is Sportingbet, who allegedly refused to pay on winning bets struck by Curley’s associates, the same company advertising a £25 free wager on the World Cup on the right-hand side of the page as I type? Surely not?
Curley quote…The horses here have the best time of any stable in the world.
Precisely…. They don’t have to do a bl..dy tap in any of their races even though Joe Public might have placed his hard-earned cash on them thinking he’s going to get a decent and honest run for his money.
If you’re going to pull tricks like that Curley just have the common decency to keep quiet about it. Rubbing people’s noses in your excrement does a great disservice to racing.
If you were just an ordinary guy who had pulled one over on the bookies I’d have the greatest admiration for you. But because you are who you are you’re no better than an inside-dealer on the Stock Exchange. Only difference being that when they get caught they end up in prison whereas you get off scott-free.
Rather than attract more people to the game, the chances are you’ve only served to reinforce a growing knowledge that racing and betting has its own class system, i.e. those in the stable, those in the know and, finally, those on the outside. Regrettably, it’s the latter group who are the least well-off in society who continue to contribute most to the sport.
K
The last of the great knights
but in the main I agree with
you conundrum in that the betting
public have subsidised this romantic
profligate act.I am assuming that the horses
were given delicate treatment
which is against the spirit
of fairness so largely
absent from the sport today
and in the past, but it
is worrying that the jockey who
ambassadors the sport congratulates
on the delicate treatment.The interesting thing is that
Curley speaks as if the horses
just came ripe at the same time
as if by divine intervention
or a huge slice of luck.I wholeheartedly agree with
Curley’s swingeing attacks
on the big chains and his
assessment of the bingo machines.If the touch had been mine
I suppose there is a danger
the buckets of cash
might change my morality
Wonderful stuff here , amazing some bookies try and get out of things so easily
Looks like our good sponsors might have a wee bit of explaining to do
Ricky
Indeed Ricky and don’t you detect
a little bit of spite in the timing
of the last email seconds before the
Brighton race started. Quite as nasty a
ploy as slipping a scorpion
into a sleeping man’s bed.Sportingbet may have damaged their
reputation but would be in the clear
I would think from a leagal standpoint.The BHB not unhappy with past performances
but where did this line come from,
I wouldn’t have thought the BHB’s mouth.
Surely more a statement by default
or inference.Curley like Ramsden before him
certainly help the cornflakes go down.
I suppose racing thrives on these
love-hate dragons with extra large teeth.Thanks Mare for serving it up !
Interesting stuff here from the BHA’s Head of Handicapping Phil Smith in relation to the above –
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/blogs/head_of_handicapping.asp
We’ll very shortly be doing a Q&A with Phil so you’ll have a chance to put your own questions on handicapping directly to the man at the helm.
Smith’s arguments are calm and lucid and well put but boil down to the idea that a handicapper should not take into account the MO of the trainer concerned. He considers that a ‘dangerous road’ to go down it seems. Some might argue its more dangerous to the sports reputation not to take into account the MO of trainers who have such pronounced proclivities. Curley’s overall stats suggest he is a merely average trainer (deserving of the average handicapping he’s received). A closer look at his stats though reveals that when his horse is in the front third of the market his winning strike rate is higher even than that of an above average trainer like Mark Johnston. When his horses are in the bottom third of the market only 1% of them even make the frame. This rather gives the lie to Smiths claim that people only get irate when horses he is dropping are backed and win. Not true. Many of us get pretty annoyed when they drift and run like barges in a way that is statistically significant (1%placed from the bottom third in the market stat is extraordinary) and then get dropped by a credulous handicapper.
Smith’s argument is well put with the fact he has to treat everyone equally, but I feel some serious flaws in the system have been highlighted more than ever before.
Dear Conundrum; If you really think the bookies are nice guys you should visit your psychiatrist. Joe Public should not be messing around with them to begin with.They have only one objective; to transfer the money from your pocket to theirs.Barney Curley has the same objective ie to transfer money from the bookies pocket to his own.If you think a small time trainer is training horses for the benefit of Joe Public again another visit to you know who.Gambling is a mugs game and the mugs lose and that includes Joe Public.Joe should also see you know who if he thinks he will make money visiting his local bookmaker.However when he realises that he is doomed to lose then he will have no problem with Barney or his local bookmaker and you know who will become the bookies refuge.
"Regrettably, it’s the latter group who are the least well-off in society who continue to contribute most to the sport."
I cannot believe that any sane person would write such stuff. The least well-off in society have money to throw away at the bookies offices? I don’t thnk so. Those with money to waste at the bookies are the least well off in brains but not in money.Sorry but they contribute to the bookies but not to racing. Upon reflection I realised that you were just joking.Seeking a discussion perhaps.Curley’s relationship with the off-course firms may be a fraught and cold ‘him and us’ or ‘me and them’ (or maybe not in truth
) but I’d suggest his relations with the on-course firms are a little warmer if a scene I witnessed some years ago at York is any guideOn Ebor day 2004 rumours were rife that Curley had backed Mephisto (Cumani/Holland) for the famous race, and he was indeed on-course – very smartly dressed in a slightly too loud large check bespoke suit with his half-size-too-small titfer tilted in its customary Caponesque fashion.
The race was run and a photo called. During the rather lengthy wait for the result Curley was standing in Tatts – if memory serves ‘twixt the No1 joint and the entrance to Members – with bookies Micky Fletcher and the recently retired Leslie Steele. All three stock-still, no words spoken
Mephisto (6/1 2nd fav) wins. Fletcher – as is his wont – hip-hops, yells and hugs Curley; Steele – as is his wont – offers a courteous handshake and warm smile; Curley – as is his wont – remains motionless, deadpan and schtum; John Ridley, Pat Higgins, Colin Webster and a host of other Tatts layers nearby, heads turned and eyes focussed on Curley, signal their congratulations in various ways
It all had an air of genuine affection for the man, and I went away thinking they want and need Curley as much as Curley wants and needs them: mutual respect – friendship even – developed over the years by the ‘sometimes you win Barney, sometimes we do’ swings and roundabouts that is betting and laying
Or to be cynical: a mutual back-scratching beneficial to both…possibly
Personally I’ve little time for the practioners of betting coups and of Curley in particular but have to admit that I could do nothing else but admire the way he conducted himself on-course that day when Mephisto was called the winner: no emotion, no words, no nothing as the
razzle
roared all around
An exemplary lesson in how we should all conduct ourselves, win or lose
…treat those two imposters just the same
- Total Posts 17716
Drone
, a wonderfully vivid vignette – thank you! Your assessment of Curley’s positive importance to the Bookmaking Fraternity seems to me spot on: they need him to add that smear of romantic relish, and to foster the myth that the "little man" can beat the big batallions at their own game.
Of course, "little man" Mr C. is not.
And
andyod
… alas, it is only too true that it’s the people at the bottom, the ones who can’t afford it, who fill the bookies’s satchels. Look at where the majority of betting shops are situated if you need any further convincing about the truth. For a great many, betting is a problem, not a pleasant diversion.
In response to my post, Andyod wrote… If you really think the bookies are nice guys you should visit your psychiatrist.
…..Joe Public should not be messing around with them to begin with.They have only one objective; to transfer the money from your pocket to theirs.
…..If you think a small time trainer is training horses for the benefit of Joe Public again another visit to you know who.
…..Gambling is a mugs game and the mugs lose and that includes Joe Public.Joe should also see you know who if he thinks he will make money visiting his local bookmaker.
…..I cannot believe that any sane person would write such stuff. The least well-off in society have money to throw away at the bookies offices? I don’t thnk so. Those with money to waste at the bookies are the least well off in brains but not in money.
…..Sorry but they contribute to the bookies but not to racing. Upon reflection I realised that you were just joking.
Seeking a discussion perhaps.Dear Andyod, location Sacramento, C.A. U.S.A.???
I think your location tells me all I need to know about you Andyod. Land of the Brave with a Psychotherapist on every street corner.
For the record though, I don’t have a psychiatrist at present. I drove the last one nuts and he said I was beyond help.
I’m somewhat bemused by your statement that gambling is a mug’s game. Apart from teaching your granny to suck eggs I can’t understand what on earth would interest you in joining a forum like this. Wouldn’t your time be better spent pursuing more sensible and productive pursuits, such as clearing up some of that oil that you’re polluting the oceans with?
Your opinion of the people who frequent betting shops is rather disparaging, offensive and dare I say somewhat arrogant.
Their contribution to racing is immense but I don’t wish to patronize you by explaining how.
KDear Conundrum,I have been backing horses since I backed Hattons Grace to win the Champion Hurdle three times for Vincent( I paid my way through boarding school on bets).Later on I watched Sadler’s Wells winning the Irish Champion Stakes at the Phoenix Park. I regularly attend the BC when they come to CA.I am a personal friend some of Ireland’s champion jockeys.I have had an interest in at least eight different horses running in Ireland and England. My father trained horses. Believe me I know of what I speak. I read the forum because I love racing.However I believe that Bookmakers are thieves and scoundrels, by profession.
By the way it is OK to patronize me,at my age it don’t matter.Andyod wrote….I paid my way through boarding school on bets…
Eton or Harrow? Now I understand where you’re coming from Andyod. It must have scarred you for life receiving those regular thrashings from the sixth-form prefects.
I defer to your seniority on matters pertaining to horse racing but I cannot accept what appears to be a somewhat snobbish perception of betting shop punters. Even though your assertion that they are brainless in thinking they can beat the bookie might be close to the truth I think it’s important to recognise that not all will have enjoyed the privileged experience of a private education.
All that apart, good wishes to you. Keep taking the pills.
K
Only wish I knew him!
) but I’d suggest his relations with the on-course firms are a little warmer if a scene I witnessed some years ago at York is any guide
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