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I’ve done some analysis on the quality of racing Jump vs AW for the first ten days of 2008 – a period where there were almost an identical number of NH and AW races.
No of AW Races 118
No of Turf Races 117AW Grading
Class 1 Races 0 Percentage 0%
Class 2 Races 3 Percentage 2.55%
Class 3 Races 1 Percentage 0.86%
Class 4 Races 10 Percentage 8.47%
Class 5 Races 43 Percentage 36.44%
Class 6 Races 56 Percentage 47.45%
Class 7 Races 5 Percentage 4.23%Turf Grading
Class 1 Races 5 Percentage 4.27%
Class 2 Races 9 Percentage 7.69%
Class 3 Races 25 Percentage 21.36%
Class 4 Races 58 Percentage 49.58%
Class 5 Races 16 Percentage 13.68%
Class 6 Races 4 Percentage 3.42%OK I know the classes are not identical, however the figures do show the quality spread in AW weather racing is towards the lower quartile.
Of course turf races are going to generally be of a higher quality. The a/w allows flat only trainers a chance to have runners all year round, it gives punters a chance to back on flat racing all year round, it comes as a welcome relieve to have some form of racing on when all the jumps fixtures are cancelled due to weather, it means flat jockeys can get paid for rides through the winter.
Summer jumping will be full of low level horses but again the same sentiments apply.
What should we do with low level horses – shoot them all?, put a lot of the smaller trainers out of business and only allow trainers like Stoute, O’Brien, Godolphin etc to have runners in order not to offend people who moan about low grade racing.
Low grade racing has a part to play in racing, even if you hate low grade racing – by watching it should mean that when you do get your high grade races that you will appreciate them even more.
A lot of a/w racing is dire some of it is good, some non league football games are dire to watch some are good games (so Im told although I would never watch that low grade non league trash)
There are 72 runners declared at Southwell tomorrow, there’s just too much racing in general and it has to be evened out, maybe that’s the answer to there being smallish fields today?
I can’t get enough of the AW racing at this time of the year.
I like AW Racing. (25/1, 100/30 and 9/2 winners on the DLP section today, plus two big forecasts and a couple of tasty lays. Racing without dirty great obstacles to factor into your calculations? You know it makes sense!!).
Anyroad. About Barry Dennis not showing UK horse racing in his betting shops.
Does anyone remember Barry Noble?
Barry Noble was the self-publicising Northern amusement Arcadist whose life’s ambition was to place a fruit machine-filled amusement arcade onto every High Street in the country.
At its peak, old ladies, young people with learning difficulties and unemployed blokes too thick to figure out pounds per length could blow their dough on ancient FOBT’s, while drinking free tea in over 650 High Streets north of the Trent.
Noble, because of the nature of his machines – which caused about 100,000 vulnerable people to seek help for addiction and financial difficulties – became one of the richest men in the North.
Unfortunately, the boisterous Mr Noble, (a keen Newcastle supporter) died a horrible death at the hands of assailants unknown before he could take his FOBT filled empire South of Watford.
Is Barry Dennis is redressing the balance.
I think we should be told.I am pleased to see my original comment has provoked a response. The responses are interesting and I am left with the impression a large number of people just want something to punt on and are not really interested in the actual sport of racing itself.
So what is the point of racing? Why do people follow racing? Why the interest?
Is the aim just provide, for want of a better word, fodder for the general punting populace. If so, blanket AW racing unarguably has its place this time of the year. It is racing on a relatively predictable surface, where the form generally holds out quite well, certainly better than on turf.
If you hold that particular view, is the racing at Wolverhampton, Southwell et al that much different than the virtual racing now show, ad nauseum, in most betting shops? Where in the ‘jump’ racing horses never fall and the going is, I believe, always the same.
Or is racing a sport where you want to watch horses battle it out against one other and the various imponderables. Different course types, different going etc. ? Where the skills of the jockeys and trainers are tested?
Quality of racing and field size is almost immaterial, I have seen exciting four runner class 6 races where the contenders cross the line almost together. Equally I have seen large field class 2 races which have turned into a boring procession.
I wrote an article recently where I examined a paradox I have with AW racing. As a punting medium I have a much higher strike rate with AW racing. Of the three occasions I have “gone through the cardâ€
The three a/w tracks all have completely different characteristics. Im surprised you managed to go through the card at Lingfield without being aware of this.
At Lingfield it is really hard to make all and most races are set up for the finishers.
At Southwell it can be hard to come from behind and you also have the added distraction of kickback from the fibresand which some horses handle and some horses hate.
At Kempton its best to race close to the pace although I would say that Kempton is the fairest regardless of how a horse races.These are all characteristics of the individual course and all 3 tracks are a different surface. Southwell is fibresand, Wolverhampton and Lingfield are polytrack but they are two different types of polytrack and anyone who says they are an identical surface is kidding themselves.
The three a/w tracks all have completely different characteristics.
Agree that there are differences between the tracks, but I’m fairly sure there are four courses…
The three a/w tracks all have completely different characteristics.
Agree that there are differences between the tracks, but I’m fairly sure there are four courses…
There are only 3 a/w courses in the country where I live although when Great Leighs eventually opens there will be four, correct me if im wrong?
The three a/w tracks all have completely different characteristics.
Agree that there are differences between the tracks, but I’m fairly sure there are four courses…
There are only 3 a/w courses in the country where I live although when Great Leighs eventually opens there will be four, correct me if im wrong?
Kempton, Lingfield, Wolverhampton and Southwell – I make that four!!
All four of which were named in my post which shows how closely you bothered to read it!!!
Hmmm…
Kempton (one)
Lingfield (two)
Southwell (three)
Wolverhampton (four)You even mention all four in your write up. Weird stuff that both of you were confused – had me doubting myself…
I would take a wild guess he is.
But every Irish man I have ever met would be seriously offended if you called them British.So if we are including all countries a/w tracks then there are probably thousands.
Hmmm…
Kempton (one)
Lingfield (two)
Southwell (three)
Wolverhampton (four)You even mention all four in your write up. Weird stuff that both of you were confused – had me doubting myself…
That is weird. Im confused at how I could have got so confused especially as the one I forgot was my local one.
Taxiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
I think you’d better call in Ginger and his table of tables, if adding up the AW tracks in GB is such a prob!
The one thing Paul is wrong about is that these are NOT all flat ovals.
Wolver is the one that is. This is because it was originally built for trotting racing. A flat oval is best for those carts.
Through, what some call rather devious means, the place was wrested from the hands of the trotters and the AW racing commenced.There was always hostility from the rulers, and they deliberately made a point of suppressing quality; they limited the class of racing.
Even now, when protests are made to Arena L, they claim that it is BHA policy to " dumb down" and generally run poor stuff on the AW.
Imo, it is an awful waste of an opportunity. I really do beileve that they could have established a " centre of excellence" for sand racing in Europe, if they had made – or been allowed to make – the effort to upgrade the thing.
Instead, they chose to go the other way with the introduction of that heinous bandit crap. This was particularly bad at the time of those horrendous "twilight meetings".I am ashamed to say that I was a regular attender of such dire fare, and, despite them cutting right back on it, the devastating effect of it has left permanent damage.
This coupled with the disaster of fast-tracking unlicensed layers via the Exchanges and then compounded by the SP changes, pitch changes, shopbingo rackets, and now, the economic recession, has just about put the kybosh on the game.
Finally, I cannot totally accept Paul’s opinion on the lack of atmosphere at the AW. For the hardy regulars who turn out paddock-side, there is often some pretty good fun and sport, despite all the adversity.
In fact, I’d go as far as to say that those Southwell regulars really are an astute and knowledgible lot. They know their stuff. Perhaps that’s why they enjoy it.Or am I in a minority of one in caring more about the sport, spectacle and atmosphere and not seeing racing just as betting fodder?
I like all weather racing, does that mean I don’t care about the sport, spectacle and atmosphere?
Or am I in a minority of one in caring more about the sport, spectacle and atmosphere and not seeing racing just as betting fodder?
I like all weather racing, does that mean I don’t care about the sport, spectacle and atmosphere?
I wouldn’t know and I wouldn’t presume to speak for you
Finally, I cannot totally accept Paul’s opinion on the lack of atmosphere at the AW. For the hardy regulars who turn out paddock-side, there is often some pretty good fun and sport, despite all the adversity.
In fact, I’d go as far as to say that those Southwell regulars really are an astute and knowledgible lot. They know their stuff. Perhaps that’s why they enjoy it.
I can only go on what I see Sean. At Wolverhampton last Monday there were no great huddles of punters round the ring. Just odd pairs chatting or staring into the middle distance.
I am at Southwell tomorrow and will report back on what I see.
I myself have only ever been to 3 aw meetings, 2 at Wolverhampton and 1 at Southwell which only occured due to a Doncaster abandonment.
Like the jumps the aw crowd have their own niche in the sameway that p2p racing does and we should all respect that as it is fair to say that the hardcore turf flat fans probably dont like seeing their favourite middle distance handicappers being sold off then gelded and sent over hurdles.
The aw does have a fair recognition over Europ for example in France you have Deauville and Pau who have polytracks and when you think about it Deauville is known for its Prix Jacque le thingy and Pau for its top class jump racing.
In Germany you have Neuss and Dortmund which are the only ones i know.Sure the aw may not be everyones idea of fun but it does exsist and as long as it does not affect jumping we should be ok,
I think we should be told.
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