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Kingfisher
The definition i am making Paul is that the REAL racing Fan has lived with the whip and its implications for centuries,horses survived a proper whip from the past and they will certainly survive the latest friendlier edition.
In your opinion!
Racing has been in its purest form for the past 100 yrs Paul,Horse,Jockey,Trainer,Whip,all together trying to win!
Which pre-supposes that the whip is necessary to whip. Now the rules have changed a bit, but I can’t ever recall a rule which said that jockeys have to use the whip!
I understand your view and I can understand why it is put forcefully. However, what I can’t understand is how you cannot entertain the possibility that someone who disagrees with you is a ‘REAL racing fan’.
I understand the reason why the whip rules were brought in. I’m not happy in the way it’s been administered and I don’t think either the BHA or PJA come out with an awful credit over the whole business.
If you don’t think I’m a ‘REAL racing fan’ then I suggest you join me paddock side on a freeze your wotsits off day like Musselburgh yesterday. Believe me I live and breathe the sport.
It really does amuse me when certain parties here refer to Mr Cormack’s henchmen. It really has shades of the bogeyman!
Rob
How people like Paul and Rob can not be described as "REAL" racing fans, baffles me.
Value Is EverythingFrom all the talk on here anyone would think the whip is banned. It isn’t.
Value Is EverythingKingfisher
Mmm, I had wondered why all the lights dim and there was a strange chill when I drive up Halbeath Road towards the motorway!
Chippy ain’t bad though!
Rob
How people like Paul and Rob can not be described as "REAL" racing fans, baffles me.
‘On a night like this,
i deserve to get kissed
at least once or twice’
You come over to my place
screaming Blue murder
needing somewhere to hide’Ginge, one singer,one song!
Kingfisher
Mmm, I had wondered why all the lights dim and there was a strange chill when I drive up Halbeath Road towards the motorway!
Chippy ain’t bad though!
Rob
You ever tried the Red Pudding Supper Rob? I’ll stick to the Black myself,its different class to what you get down here!
How people like Paul and Rob can not be described as "REAL" racing fans, baffles me.
‘On a night like this,
i deserve to get kissed
at least once or twice’
You come over to my place
screaming Blue murder
needing somewhere to hide’Ginge, one singer,one song!
Now could that be construed
as some radical’s views
or some liberals’ wish?Value Is EverythingRicky – I’m
very
confident that 99.9% of regular forumites who’ve read your post on page 5 of this thread will recognise it for the complete load of codswallop it is.
When people resort to attacking
me
and not
my argument
then it’s usually a sign my argument is on pretty firm ground.
I can corroborate Pete’s claims that we’ve never had ANY correspondence on this issue and I’ve never spoken with GT on it either. We are a collection of individuals with similar, though not identical, views on a subject. A little bit like you, KF and Eddie Case.
I’ve noted for some time your continual anti-TRF posts, you’ve been consistently sticking the knife in for several years if we’re both honest haven’t you? ‘The forum’s dead’, ‘all the good posters have disappeared’ – blah di blah. Yet here we both still are.
You seem to take a perverse delight whenever there is any sort of friction, and when you’re not in the corner rubbing your hands with glee when a fight erupts, you’re in there wheedling away trying to make something of nothing. It’s very tiring.
As far as responding to your ‘calls’ for Pompete to be banned, stop being ridiculous. Take a read of this thread (and others) and let me know who you actually think have been the people showing disrespect for other people’s views and characters.
Great posts from Betlarge and from the Ostermeyer.
KF – travel a little further north and you’ll discover that the only REAL pudding is the white pudding. (So long as you don’t count the haggis as a pudding of course).
KF – travel a little further north and you’ll discover that the only REAL pudding is the white pudding. (So long as you don’t count the haggis as a pudding of course).
Being a ‘Fifer’ i’ve had them all,’Potted Heed’ too,i know a REAL Pudding when i see one Corm!
Corm
A number of things to comment on ,
1 your attack on me by calling me anti TRF is the lowest of the low
2 describing me as someone who causes friction is disappointing
3 having a ruck with posters who disagree with your view, must be lovely for your commercial sponsors
How could anyone sponsor this site when such vindictive, personalised attacks on individuals who take a robust opposing view to yours is quite beyond me ….IMO of course
in my opinion you have gone to far , TRF now is a clique , despite your protests the best posters no longer frequent or are banned
In my opinion your views on the whip are wrong , misguided , time will prove this, racing will be poorer as a result , again time will prove this…your little clique will not !!!
In Ireland we have a saying , insults should be taken as compliments from those who know no better , you sir definitely fall into that category , so I am just going to ignore you and this silly forum
What was once a great forum with much fun and laughter is now reduced to a squabble ….imo
Keep it
Ricky
ps dont worry Pete and Ginger will be along shortly to defend you ….its all part of the norm IMO
To all others I wish you a very happy Christmas
RIIIICCCCKKKKKYYYYYY!
(Said in Patsy Palmers inimitable screech)
Calm down.Have you not noticed how those of us who are vociferrous in our
dissagreements with those who are happy to be lead like lambs to the slaughter have been singled out!
‘Pinza’, ‘Eddie Case’ ‘Ricky Lake’ and yours truly have all incurred the wrath of Corm and his Merry Men,I love it,its called debate.When it comes to instigating a bit of movement,i like to think i’m a master at it! 
If keeping it REAL is a crime,i’m guilty M’lud but the prosecutors can either respond or ignore,nobodys forcing anyone to read my drivel.Corm knows exactly what a wind-up merchant i am,the titles of my threads suggest a ‘Machavellian'(Pinzaesque) approach to debate.Now of course the paranoid among us may think we are being ‘weedled out’ and then Banned! Ethnic cleansing of TRF by ‘David the Dictator’ Nah he’s better than that and he knows it! A lunges..B parries..B ripostes..A..ripostes..Others enter the fray..A melee develops.
Once again the Arena does not dissapoint. Entertainment is ensured.ps dont worry Pete and Ginger will be along shortly to defend you ….its all part of the norm IMO
To all others I wish you a very happy Christmas
You were right, well almost.I think Gord has done a good enough job at defending Corm. Pete and I don’t need to.
Happy Christmas Ricky
Mark
Value Is EverythingRicky, why do you need to be confrontational?
You called for another member to be banned when he used statistics to support his argument, that was rather silly. Pompete is a wind-up merchant and I would not be surprised if his views expressed are designed to provoke a reaction. If he had been given a public warning and chose to ignore it then there would be a case for him been banned.
As for Pinza being banned, he was clearly given a public warning over his conduct which he choose to ignore. He can only have himself to blame for the fact.
Maybe this will help
Maybe this will help
Brilliant – I had forgotten that one
Kingfisher, your idea of REAL racing doesn’t wash with me. REAL racing started before Jesus was a boy and whips were the least a horse should be worried about. As for PURE racing, surely that wouldn’t involve us humans at all, it would be horse against horse. Disregarding people just because they have a different take on things is not on (even if they may be misguided).
Ricky, if you can’t take it don’t dish it out. If you want to wallow in this Forum’s past go ahead, the Old Forum is dead, Long Live the Old Forum !
I haven’t made much comment on the whip issue for a couple of reasons. One, I can’t be arsed to continually repeat my position a la the unmentionable one, Kingfisher, GT, he who must be obeyed etc. It’s not constructive in my opinion.
And two, I’m a bit grey. I don’t particularly agree with the new rules and penalties and I certainly have an issue with how they were introduced which is a BHA black mark but I also have to say that the PJA have seemed to ask for clarification and then moaned when they have got it. Certain members of this organisation did themselves no favours by throwing their toys out of the pram when they couldn’t follow the clearer rules they asked for. At the end of the day Rules is Rules and whether you agree with them or not if you get caught doing wrong then you have to expect to be punished by the rules in place. It’s not a difficult thing to understand.
What is needed now is a concerted effort from all parties to come to a conclusion that is fair. How a jockey has treated a horse during a race is in most cases going to be a subjective view. The issue for some with the old rules was that one stewards subjective view was different to anothers and that the penalties for breaking the current rules wasn’t a big enough deterrent for a jockey to not break them again. Well, taking the deterrent issue first. You will never stop all competitive sportspeople from breaking the rules. Modern day sports is littered with people breaking the rules to their advantage on a daily basis. It doesn’t make it right but it is always there. This has to be accepted. By admitting this you then have to come up with a punishment to fit the crime. having thought about this over the last few months I can’t see how disqualification will work. I’m not a fan of the "you can only strike the horse X times" solution and it would have to be this type of black and white rule required to make this happen. A factor in my thinking on this matter was when Joe Fanning got suspended for the first time in twenty years for going over the new quota. What needs to be discussed are the finer points of punishment.Does the punishment need to be "means tested". Does the punishment need to be more for a Grade 1 than a Grade 7 ? Would a spell on the sidlines be sufficient for a misdemeanour in a lower grade and maybe a ban on riding in a number of group races if doing wrong in a grade 1. Maybe banning the jockey from riding the group winner he has just won on in its next couple of runnings would be a sufficient punishment? I don’t know to be honest.
As for the subjective stewards. Would it not be time for an industry that influences billions of pounds to become a tad more professional. Could it not employ a panel of 40-50 professional stewards to work on a rota basis in a central location to preside over every single horse race run in the UK. How difficult in this technological age would it be to view head ons, interviews with jockeys etc all from a central point when required. Have an odd number of stewards (say 15 perhaps) to always have a majority to rule on any infringements, dangerous riding, use of the whip etc etc etc. By having the same pool of people surely you will get a more consistent ruling on matters? Yes , No ? Am I being naive ?
The debate on the whip on this forum unfortunately has at times just turned in to a slanging match, with even some respected posters firing off uncharacteristic responses ( I don’t include you in this gategory Kingfisher
). Time wasted on petty bickering could have been better spent on suggesting acceptable solutions for all parties.
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