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2000 Guineas 2023

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  • #1607276
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    Early days, obviously, but I was seriously impressed by Little Big Bear in the Anglesey Stakes this afternoon. Travelled; quickened; ran through the line.

    Ryan Moore thinks he’s a Dewhurst horse and LBB is a big, strapping colt who should continue to improve. Normally, two year olds who make their debut the day after the Grand National don’t go on to Guineas glory but I doubt there have been many early juveniles with LBB’s raw ability; besides, Coolmore have re-written the record books many times.

    The Windsor Castle form is looking very strong, with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th and 11th all having won since and the 7th, 12th and 18th all finishing runner-up. This from only 13 subsequent runs from the Ascot race.

    The colt is currently a best price 16s with Bet365 but my account was closed by them earlier this year, so I’ve had to take the 14s elsewhere.

    #1607281
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Love it, Gladders.

    I remember Vincent O’Brien liking to take the Anglesey-Railway-National-Dewhurst Stakes route with whichever 2yo was the apple of his eye each year and Little Big Bear clocked a faster time than OR 100-rated 7yo Mr Wagyu did in the following Premier Handicap.

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    #1607287
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    I’d be slightly concerned by the amount of times he runs as a two year old but then I see who trains him and it doesn’t matter any more

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    #1607300
    FinalFurlong91
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    Don’t see him as a guineas horse personally

    Wrong profile wrong breeding for me

    The late blooming 2yos will improve past him and stay better most likely

    At least that’s how I see it

    #1607351
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    I agree FF. I don’t see him running let alone winning a guineas but with O’Brien as the trainer I couldn’t rule him out as not at least running in it

    Persian Force and Isaac Shelby would be my two at the moment

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    #1607353
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    Nathan- Persian Force made his debut before LBB and has had the same number of runs so far. Granted, he’s a later foal (April, as compared to January) but he’s half LBB’s size.

    Of the two, LBB is by far the more likely to progress from two to three.

    #1607357
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    Hannon seems confident that he is a guineas horse. His last run screamed step me up in trip.
    I wouldn’t want him running much more between now and the winter though. I’ve not had a bet in this race, just that I like him. I like LBB too, maybe more if they gave him a break and have a plan of him being a guineas horse. Maybe they do think of him as one but O’Brien will have more to come out to play with the fancy pedigrees
    Good luck though..😀

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    #1607363
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    Potentially they could meet in the National Stakes or Dewhurst

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    #1607372
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Mill Reef made his debut in May as a 2yo over 5f at Salisbury.

    Granted he wasn’t your average racehorse.

    But I’ve taken the 100/7 about Little Big Bear nonetheless!

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    #1607412
    FinalFurlong91
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    Persian force is by mehmas so can’t have him either

    Both are surely too speedy to be genuine milers

    #1607470
    newyork1
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    LBB is out of a dam who stayed 10f so little or no doubt he will stay a mile

    #1607477
    FinalFurlong91
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    Looks like he takes after the no nay never side of the pedigree though doesn’t he?

    He’d need to be a freak to be fast enough to be winning a 5f 2yo race at Royal ascot and also be staying the mile strongly enough to win a guineas

    #1607480
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    Lusail is by Mehmas and ran 5th in the guineas and 2nd in the St James Palace Stakes. Hannon trains Lusail but thinks a hell of a lot more of Persian Force. What will help Persian Force get the mile is he is so relaxed and calm.

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    #1607484
    FinalFurlong91
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    Lusail perfect example surely

    Talented speedy horse that didn’t stay the trip strongly enough to win

    #1607486
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    Persian Force will prove to be better than Lusail imo. Probably won’t be able to get the trip strong enough to be fair but at the moment I’d have him 25’s ahead of Little Big Bear 14’s if forced to pick one

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    #1607585
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    Epictetus 33/1.

    #1607606
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    CAS’s beast has a nice pedigree – plenty of progressive influence on the dam’s side as she never saw a racecourse until she was a 3yo and was still winning races at six.

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