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20 man brawl at Goodwood.

Home Forums Horse Racing 20 man brawl at Goodwood.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 75 total)
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  • #1356716
    patriot1patriot1
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    • Total Posts 451

    Kieran Fallon’s assault on Stuart Webster was worse than Da Silva’s and he wasn’t prosecuted despite no shortage of witnesses.

    #1356806
    gman
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    • Total Posts 33

    The classism and arrogance on this forum astounds me at times. I grew up on a council estate, am fully working class, like football, drink lager, admit i have used drugs in the past and I don’t want to fight when I go to the races.

    Feelings from this thread to address

    Firstly cocaine is and long associated with the higher class, it is rife in the upper social circles so it is not just a football thing

    Never seen a fight at a real ale festival- absolute load of nonsense.i have attended maybe 20 in nice areas generally around the New forest and have seen 3 incidents. For comparison I have been a season ticket holder at Portsmouth (a club synonimous with hooligans) for 15 years attending well over 500 games and have been witness to maybe ten actual violent acts.

    The damnation of the football crowd completely ignoring the so fact that rugby players and fans are notorious for late night antics and trouble. Look how many rugby players have been in trouble for fighting compared to footballers. Again a kick in the nuts form the “real ale” brigade

    Contrary to uneducated belief cocaine does not make you want to fight, if anything it’s the opposite. I guarantee if you put a room full of people drunk in real ale and a room full of people on cocaine and watched both the drinkers would be more likely to fight.

    I am not saying there is not an issue with fighting, drugs at racecourses but it is in no way an epidemic and the sheer arrogance of people to blame a particular type of person is disgusting.

    Drops mic..

    #1356823
    betlargebetlarge
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    • Total Posts 2664

    The classism and arrogance on this forum astounds me at times

    I know. Imagine us not wanting to see people get the **** kicked out of them at race-meetings. How stuck-up can you get, eh?

    Mike

    #1356824
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
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    • Total Posts 4585

    grasysonsolumn wrote

    I don’t know if the above risks taking a slightly reductive view of anyone who sees fit to partake of an alcoholic beverage at a race meeting. Either way, as I’ve probably mentioned before on these pages donkey’s years ago, the issue for me is less about whether any alcohol is drunk and more about what is drunk.

    There wouldn’t be anywhere near the same sort of profits returned if racecourse bars stuck to certain types of real ale, but then there wouldn’t necessarily be the same propensity for violence and disorder either.

    Or to put it another way:

    1) Have you ever tried to chug down as many pints of Old Peculier in an afternoon as pints of strong, cheap nitro-piss? Bet you won’t have got very far – it’s intrinsically harder to drink quicker.

    2) Have you ever seen a punch-up of the sorts witnessed at Ascot or Goodwood of late at a real ale festival? Thought not.

    My regular carshare friend at point-to-points espouses a further theory. Having seen such footage of the recent brawls as has been made public, he’s convinced that the level and intensity of violence perpetrated could not be performed by people merely full of alcohol, as diminishing returns would eventually kick in and the punches become more mistimed and ultimately aimless.

    Instead, there must be some not insignificant element of drug-taking in the mix, too, probably cocaine but not exclusively, and the frequent impossibility of getting into a toilet cubicle to use it for its intended purpose at many Saturday Rules fixtures he’s attended in the recent past just adds to his suspicions.

    If there is any kernel of truth in those assertions, and accepting that there’d be little way of checking adequately whether someone had taken a fistful of pills or a wrap in the coach to the races an hour prior, is there nevertheless some mileage in making checks of bags and belongings on entry to the racecourse a heck of a lot more stringent than is currently the case, if indeed not absolutely mandatory for certain high-profile/weekend fixtures?

    gc

    No GC I was not taking a reductive view of anyone who has a drink before or during racing – I was seriously asking about the attraction as to why people need to consume alcohol in order to relax and enjoy themselves. My point is it is perfectly possible to enjoy a sporting event without consuming alcohol so I really do struggle to understand it when people say they need to drink alcohol to enjoy a day at the races or any other such event …… I can understand it watching an association football match as I cannot think of a more boring sporting contest, then again I would not pay to go and see a football match.

    Point 1 – I personally wouldn’t drink either.

    Point 2 – yes I have seen punch up-s and antisocial behaviour at beer festivals, including real ale festivals although I concede it’s more likely at the “non”-real ale festivals. Indeed I am working at a beer festival in a few weeks time – the fact they are paying for six of us to cover the event shows they fully expect our services to be required.

    Are you advocating racecourses should only sell real ale – knowing you I suspect you are not :-) – if alcohol is to be sold then a choice should be available.

    However it is important licensing laws are enforced, which they currently are not …. it’s apparent some racecourses are not able to self police the sale of alcohol in which case it should be down to the licensing authorities to rescind a few licences – that will focus the minds of racecourse executives.

    In terms of the Newbury and Goodwood fights these do appear to be pre-arranged fights although alcohol probably helps give those involved the dutch courage to fight …… it’s amazing how many people become heroes after a drink or five.

    However incidents I have witnessed at Newmarket and Ascot have been drink fuelled and are, frankly, no different than the fights that will be encountered in most town centres any night of the week.

    Regarding drugs, cocaine does have a dopamine effect, which gives more energy but in my experience I have not experienced that many cocaine fighters amongst casual users. It usually needs a massive dose or significant long term usage to cause the taker to be combative and that’s usually the result of the paranoia rather than latent aggression. On the other hand drugs like mephedrone, MDPV or methylone or synthetic marijuana, like Spice will cause aggression ……. I’m not sure how big a problem that is at racecourses.

    As for searches – the only way to combat drugs entering the course would be to employ sniffer dogs, which would be prohibitively expensive. Even full baggage searches wouldn’t find that many drugs. The only time I see sniffer dogs routinely employed at a racecourse is at Royal Ascot and they are looking for explosives rather than drugs. A couple of years ago I was used to test the dogs and they are very good indeed at doing their job, all three dogs we tested picked me out.

    Also, is full searching practical – I remember after the IRA Grand National, Aintree introduced airport style security in following years and it was a farce …. not all bags were checked and if people refused to submit to a search they were still allowed in.

    #1356826
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26565

    The classism and arrogance on this forum astounds me at times.

    Agreed, speaking as someone of the so-called “working class” from the same area as you; classism/arrogance made by fellow working class astounds me.

    Inverted snobbery is just as bad as snobbery and unfortunately I see a lot more of the former these days.

    value is everything
    #1356982
    gman
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33

    The classism and arrogance on this forum astounds me at times

    I know. Imagine us not wanting to see people get the **** kicked out of them at race-meetings. How stuck-up can you get, eh?

    Mike

    Standard response. I never once disagreed with that sentiment. My point was the way people jump to conclusions about certain groups of people is sad to see. Very narrow minded

    #1357030
    DroneDrone
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    • Total Posts 5085

    Graysonscolumn wrote:

    Have you ever tried to chug down as many pints of Old Peculier in an afternoon as pints of strong, cheap nitro-piss? Bet you won’t have got very far – it’s intrinsically harder to drink quicker.

    I rarely indulge at all nowadays but used to find it easier to swill real ale than lager or gassy keg beer: a gallon of Tetley Bitter no problem, after the races of course ;-)

    Old Peculier used to have the reputation of being an unusually strong brew to be consumed with caution; but at abv 5.6% it’s only a tad stronger than Stella, Grolsch, Kronenbourg etc which have an abv around 5%. The mean strength of regulation beers/lagers has increased over the years to the point where those at abv around 3.5% – the standard drinking bitter of my youth – are uncommon. Drinking culture seems to have changed from the agreeably visceral knocking back of several pints of tasty ‘weak’ ale to one where the intention is just to get blasted

    My solution to racecourse inebriation would be for them to be permitted to sell only Sam Smith’s Dark Mild at abv 2.8% with perhaps a small premium on top of the pub price of around £1.35 a pint :good:

    With the World Cup on the goggler will violence at racecourses diminish for the next few weeks?

    #1357042
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26565

    Standard response. I never once disagreed with that sentiment. My point was the way people jump to conclusions about certain groups of people is sad to see. Very narrow minded

    I saw much more of that in your response than Betlarge’s, gman?

    value is everything
    #1357091
    gman
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33

    I saw much more of that in your response than Betlarge’s, gman?

    Where exactly? Could you enlighten me. I was responding to comments on here.

    #1357099
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26565

    Where exactly? Could you enlighten me. I was responding to comments on here.

    Yes, you were earlier responding to comments on here by saying “The classism and arrogance on this forum astounds me at times” etc…

    Which to my mind if anything shows your own classism and arrogance together with you yourself “jumping to conclusions” about TRFers.

    P.S. I was in the New Forest on Sunday, doing a round walk from Fritham to Frogham and back over Hampton Ridge.

    value is everything
    #1357141
    gman
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33

    I accept the first point shouldn’t have been so general. What I meant was some of the posts on here represent that viewpoint.

    Your second point makes no sense. I was responding to views from thia thread directly regarding football, lager, etc

    I honestly couldn’t care less what you do in your own time. I was too busy out drinking lager, chanting about football and fighting.

    #1357391
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26565

    Just because someone doesn’t like lager louts, doesn’t mean they’ve labelled every lager drinker (or drugs user come to that) as a trouble maker. Nor does it mean the person making those comments is a different “class” to you. Fact is the more alcohol/drugs are consumed the more likely he/she (more likely he) is going to be violent. Therefore it is only natural for people to think of ways to improve the situation.

    Personally, I don’t drink but have no problem with others who do; as long as it’s within boundaries. Problem is in our country it’s now socially acceptable to be worse for drink/drugs. Often seems people believe it a legitamate excuse for bad behaviour (not only violence)… Being so sozzled/stoned they don’t realise what they’re doing and how their bad behaviour often ruins enjoyment for others. Not the biggest reason but is a contributory factor in me not going racing any more.

    Things will only improve if society and therefore businesses/racecourses have a lower threshold for this type of thing. I’ve seen coaches of people arrive at Newbury and Goodwood already worse for wear, they should not be let in! I’ve seen racegoers drink too much within the racecourse. Once someone gets to a certain stage they should be refused alcohol and sometimes thrown out. But all too often authorities are too scared to do the right thing, just in case doing so makes the drunkard lose the plot.

    value is everything
    #1357431
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
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    • Total Posts 4585

    Interesting to note that drugs sniffer dogs are being used at Ascot this week.

    #1358347
    clivexx
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    • Total Posts 1193

    As Paul knows from some very fine racing days together, I never drink at the course (even cheltenham festival now Paul) . I find it a bit baffling. I love the sport and don’t enjoy feeling crap in the evening let alone next day. Not difficult equation

    I go to the test match at oval all five days every year and don’t touch a drop. When I told one aquaintance I never miss a day he was “blimey you must be trolleyed!”

    “Do I look like an ******* alcoholic?”

    Why this obsession with drink? It’s a real disease in these isles. Do people really want to smell whilst sporting red mottled face and fat gut whilst not being able to get it up even if presented with Kelly brook and christy canyon for threeway ?

    (He’s a good guy so I didn’t quite reply like that but the point was made)

    #1358351
    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1193

    Courses to blame too. Won’t bore you with the awful details but,y first visit to Stratford was an exercise in finding virtually nothing to eat and desperately hard to get a cup of ******* tea

    And the bars? Everywhere

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 75 total)
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