May 18, 2018 at 14:40 #1354197Nathan HughesParticipant
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The security at Newbury, Lockinge day were armed last year
possibly a one off due to terror attacks around the time, I don’t know but it would be enough to put you off starting a brawl I’d of thoughtMember since March 2008May 22, 2018 at 22:52 #1354673graysonscolumnParticipant
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Paul Ostermeyer wrote:
“I know a large amount of profit at racecourses comes from the sale of alcohol but I have to confess I really am at a loss as to why anyone needs alcohol when they go racing.
Is the product on offer so poor it cannot be savoured or enjoyed without those attending having to consume alcohol – if the answer is yes then racing has a fundamental problem.
Are individuals lives so shallow they cannot enjoy an afternoon out or relax without having to consume a recreational drug?
They may sound naive questions but I really do struggle to understand the attraction of alcohol and peoples dependency on it.”
I don’t know if the above risks taking a slightly reductive view of anyone who sees fit to partake of an alcoholic beverage at a race meeting. Either way, as I’ve probably mentioned before on these pages donkey’s years ago, the issue for me is less about whether any alcohol is drunk and more about what is drunk.
There wouldn’t be anywhere near the same sort of profits returned if racecourse bars stuck to certain types of real ale, but then there wouldn’t necessarily be the same propensity for violence and disorder either.
Or to put it another way:
1) Have you ever tried to chug down as many pints of Old Peculier in an afternoon as pints of strong, cheap nitro-piss? Bet you won’t have got very far – it’s intrinsically harder to drink quicker.
2) Have you ever seen a punch-up of the sorts witnessed at Ascot or Goodwood of late at a real ale festival? Thought not.
3) Have you ever seen much in the way of trouble at Wincanton, where Badger Ales predominate in the refreshment areas? Me neither.
4) Have you ever seen anyone working at Wincanton with one of those accursed backpacks full of nasty lager on their backs, dispensing at will? Again, me neither.
My regular carshare friend at point-to-points espouses a further theory. Having seen such footage of the recent brawls as has been made public, he’s convinced that the level and intensity of violence perpetrated could not be performed by people merely full of alcohol, as diminishing returns would eventually kick in and the punches become more mistimed and ultimately aimless.
Instead, there must be some not insignificant element of drug-taking in the mix, too, probably cocaine but not exclusively, and the frequent impossibility of getting into a toilet cubicle to use it for its intended purpose at many Saturday Rules fixtures he’s attended in the recent past just adds to his suspicions.
If there is any kernel of truth in those assertions, and accepting that there’d be little way of checking adequately whether someone had taken a fistful of pills or a wrap in the coach to the races an hour prior, is there nevertheless some mileage in making checks of bags and belongings on entry to the racecourse a heck of a lot more stringent than is currently the case, if indeed not absolutely mandatory for certain high-profile/weekend fixtures?
The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.June 11, 2018 at 12:43 #1356607graysonscolumnParticipant
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Wouldn’t you know it – just over a week after I originally wrote the above, the MD at Kelso confirmed the charging of ten people for possession of cocaine at its Sunday meeting…
The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.June 11, 2018 at 16:37 #1356623homersimpsonParticipant
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It looks like its just not the racing crowd who enjoy a little fisticuffs every now and again.
Obviously there has to be disagreements between jockeys but I would think these are usually quickly sorted and forgotten. Obviously Mr Da Silva took exception to something Jim Crowley said/did during/after the first race. Sounds like a very unsavoury incident and luckily for Da Silva the police were not called.June 11, 2018 at 17:12 #1356625Nathan HughesParticipant
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Jim hid Raul’s bucket and spadeMember since March 2008June 11, 2018 at 21:07 #1356634Richard88Participant
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Even the horses are partial to a bit of gear apparently…June 11, 2018 at 21:48 #1356635MarkTTParticipant
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Surprised I haven’t heard about fights at Windsor after that Spencer masterclass in the 8.20June 12, 2018 at 09:16 #1356653witParticipant
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that Spencer comment reminded me of this from 2003 (these kinds of things stick in the mind in HK):June 12, 2018 at 09:20 #1356654SteeplechasingParticipant
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wit, what is the legal situation on these matters? Could the police charge the aggressor in a weighing room fight/assault?
Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/June 12, 2018 at 11:10 #1356657betlargeParticipant
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Could the police charge the aggressor in a weighing room fight/assault?
It’s an interesting one Joe. In the second minute of the 2014 RL Grand Final, Wigan’s Ben Flower punched St Helens’ stand-off Lance Hohaia unconscious. It was simply an assault. In a newspaper letter, I mooted the idea that had a police officer entered the field of play and arrested Flower on the spot, how could anyone possibly complain?
Sports with extreme levels of physical contact are obviously subject to a higher bar of what’s acceptable than race-riding is, but the Da Silva business didn’t occur during a race – it is in effect violence at a place of work. It would in reality probably need a complaint from Crowley to start any legal proceedings and given the macho nature of racing (and most other sports), I’d say that’s unlikely. Hohaia shrugged off his incident.
MikeJune 12, 2018 at 11:47 #1356658witParticipant
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Mike, you may recall the famous criminal case from 1994 of Duncan Ferguson while playing for Rangers head-butting on the field the Raith defender John McStay, who suffered a broken nose. Ferguson was red-carded and McStay did not want to take things any further.
Police at the match however took a different view, upshot of which was that Ferguson was convicted of GBH and served 3 months in Barlinnie prison – despite McStay testifying on behalf of Ferguson that he was winding-up Ferguson throughout the game, and that what happened was normal and had happened before to McStay.
That is one instance of the established law that nobody – not even the victim – can consent to a crime.
In practical terms though, as you say, the authorities tend not to prosecute unless there is a reasonable prospect of conviction, which depends on having sufficient convincing testimony. Unwilling witnesses do not help a case.
The general rule is that sportspeople implicitly consent to things happening within the rules of the sport – which includes absence of malice beyond the sport. It has been found for instance that a football tackle made with intent to break a leg is different from the same physical tackle made with the sole intent of winning the ball.
In the da Silva case, difficult to say that every jockey implictly consents to being physically assaulted by another – particularly back in the changing room.
So, Joe, answer to your question is “yes” but in practice they would not unless they felt they could present to the CPS a case that the CPS would be likely to pursue.June 12, 2018 at 15:26 #1356684Running ReinParticipant
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Whilst the circumstances you quote re the Duncan Ferguson case are true you have omitted the most important fact.
Ferguson had two previous convictions for assault…the judge at the second case (an unprovoked attack on a 72 year old man at a bus stop!) stated that if Ferguson was before the bench again for any violence related offence he could expect a custodial sentence.
So agreed an unusual imprisonment but not at all irrational given the circumstances.June 12, 2018 at 15:41 #1356685homersimpsonParticipant
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Mike, Hohaia hardly shrugged it off as he had to retire next season due to the injury. There was also talk of him taking legal action against Flower but don’t know if this actually came to fruition.
I do know of a case in an amateur game where a player informed the police of an assault taking place during a game of RL a few days after the game took place. The case went to court and the perpetrator received a CSO and also had to pay damages to the victim. In a physical game such as RL I always believe that what goes on on the field stays on the field.June 12, 2018 at 16:30 #1356688GladiateurParticipant
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What has any of this to do with the matter at hand?
A day at the races is meant to be a fun day out for all the family, regardless of colour or creed… or football affiliation, for that matter.
If someone has decided to go to the races for the day, they should have every right to do so in peace.June 12, 2018 at 17:33 #1356693betlargeParticipant
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Mike, Hohaia hardly shrugged it off as he had to retire next season due to the injury.
Yes, I wasn’t meaning that he ‘shrugged off’ the injury itself, more that he didn’t appear to be interested in taking any further action.
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