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Madman,
If trainers are honest enough to put information in public regarding the fitness of their horse, then you only have yourself to blame for not being proactive enough to see this. The RP remains the primary (and possibly only) platform for trainers pre-race comments. If you wish to not purchase the RP, why not check RP online?Ferdy Murphy deserves a pat on the back for not withholding any information back, and as long as people are made aware of this, i fail to see what the problem is.
I buy the RP virtually everyday Sal, as you might have noticed on my previous post, I said I didn’t back the horse as I was fully aware the horse was been kept for another day. But not everyone buys the RP Sal, a lot of the older generation don’t have access to PC’s , so would probably backed the horse blind on their previous knowledge of the horses form.
so would probably backed the horse blind on their previous knowledge of the horses form
Anyone who backs a horse blind gets all he deserves. Just look at Ferdy’s win stats for this time of year. Add on the fact that all of his string are a few weeks behind due to the poor weather – you’d have to be a bit nutty to be piling on. The fact that L’Antartique won should be very much highlighted for followers of that horse….as he will also improve a huge amount for that run.
Thanks for your comments GC.
I agree, people on forums tend to go overboard when they see a horse ‘apparantly’ not trying – especially when they have had money on. Ninety Nine times out of a hundred, the horse was just not good enough, but I have to say that on this occasion, the Lungo horse really did look like a case of a non trier in my opinion.
I think the comments in the RP were something on the lines of, "held up in rear, steady headway 3 out, shaken up and no impression, better for race". The comments in the analysis were "shaped with promise, making steady headway before ‘seemingly’ coming to the end of his tether"
I have to say, the above comments are some of the kindest comments I’ve ever read. They should have read, "held up in rear, headway on bridle, never asked for an effort until too late, no effort from the jockey other than to shake the reigns a few times, non trier".
Obviously the abvoe is just my opinion, but that’s exctly how it looked to me.
I also don’t buy into the arguement if anyone makes it, that the horse was being looked after on it’s first run over hurdles. I can just about understand this comment if it relates to 2 year olds having their first ever run on the flat. But this was a 5 year old, bred for jumping, with previous racecourse experiennce, and would have been extremely well schooled at home by his astute trainer.
Mike
Jump racing is only really popular in Britain & Ireland, to a lesser extent France, the rest of the world treat it with disdain. Of course the climate here is more suitable for jump horses (or useless flat horses if you like).
But isn’t the whole set up of jump racing geared towards non triers and half fit horses. The cheltenham festival is the be all and end all, of course some horses are aimed at the Hennessey, the King George and the Lexus, then a lot of them are wrapped up in cotton wool for a tilt at one of the big races at the Cheltenham festival in March, after that you have Aintree and Punchestown been ran when the Flat season is starting to get into full swing. Why all these festival meetings are run in such close proximity makes no sense to me. How about spreading them around a bit, say have Aintree run in mid November, then their is the King George & Leopardstown xmas meets in December, run the Cheltenham festival in mid Feb and Punchestown early April which will give horses ample time to get over their excertions, and maybe the top horses will meet each other in the big races more often and make for a more exciting jumps season. Both Hennesey chases/ and Irish champion hurdle will have to be fitted in aswell but that shouldn’t be too difficult with a bit of thought put into it. As it is for weeks on end there is total dross been run, before an odd w/end big race comes along.
Unless your a mare, black type in jump race means absoluetly nothing except for a bit of prestige to trainer jockey & owner, its not going to inhance its non existent stud duties. Thats why I can’t fathom why big pots like the Charlie Hall are treated with contempt by some owners and trainers ie Ferdy Murphy.
Of course all of what I just typed will make not an iota of difference, as tradition damn tradition will always have the last word.Wallace – as i stated earlier I was foolish enough to back the horse early price – simply because he was on my 40 to follow for the year. Luckily it was a small stakes punt. As soon as I saw the horse in the flesh I knew I was out of luck…..I was actually surprised by how close he got to being involved. I wont make that mistake on his next race…when he may be worth a decent bet if well placed by Lungo.
Wallace – as i stated earlier I was foolish enough to back the horse early price – simply because he was on my 40 to follow for the year. Luckily it was a small stakes punt. As soon as I saw the horse in the flesh I knew I was out of luck…..I was actually surprised by how close he got to being involved. I wont make that mistake on his next race…when he may be worth a decent bet if well placed by Lungo.
He will priced accordingly, bookmakers spot the horse who have just had a hack round aswell Wallace.
The rules on this….
Where, in the opinion of the Stewards or the HRA, a Trainer has sent any horse in his care to race with a view to schooling or conditioning the Trainer shall be guilty of an offence. Where a Rider is found in breach of Rule 157 because he was found to have been schooling and conditioning the horse, the Trainer shall be deemed guilty of an offence under Sub-Rule (ii) above unless he satisfies the Stewards or the HRA that the Rider was given by him or on his behalf instructions which complied with Sub-Rule (ii) and that the Rider failed to comply with them.
What’s really surprising is that while we all know it goes on, is that a prominent trainer would run a high profile horse in a big race and basically tell everyone in the industry’s trade paper before the race that he would be breaking the rules in the race later that afternoon.
Whats even more amazing is that he obviuosly thinks he will get away with it.
Its kinda like Drogba telling eveyone on Football Focus he will be diving in the box a few times later on in the afternoon.
Well said Cav, but its been going on for far too long because they can, simple as that.
Maybe if someone devised some sort of qualifying system for big races (maybe a points system) with a limited amount of runners for every championship race, and with a certain amount of points to be gained before qualification can be considered, ie like the World Cup, the Olympics and numerous other sports where nobody has a divine right to turn up, but have to qualify first. As it is any horse can turn up for any big race regardless whether they were pulled up or tailed off on their last 3 runs. Basically a horse who continues to dissapoint been deducted points, and will struggle to make the field for say the Cheltenham Gold Cup, because others horses who have been winning and been placed in the qualifying races are racking up the points. Might make trainers think again before they start running a half fit horse in a big race race to give them a school around.If you did the same in flat racing Mark Prescott would hardly ever be allowed a runner.
If you did the same in flat racing Mark Prescott would hardly ever be allowed a runner.
I am only talking about championship races over jumps, as black type for flat racing entires has usually a decent stud fee attached.
As it is with jump racing you can be tailed off in the King George and 2 1/2 months later your winning a Gold Cup, "See More Business"underscore, I did not take your statement at face value.
Another quiet run (Kelso) and then get it fully tuned up for a race at Ayr a month later on heavy ground would be a typical plan.
Just for those who can’t afford to buy a Racing Post – it is expensive – these are (presumably) Lungo’s comments on Berwick Law from the Stable Tour:-
‘He won both bumpers last season on heavy ground at Ayr and will make a lovely novice hurdler. We’ve been schooling him for two years and he jumps very well. When the ground becomes testing you will see him to best effect as he has terrific stamina. We will put a final edge on him when the ground becomes soft.’
If a horse has won two soft ground bumpers it would be reasonable to expect stamina not to be an issue. I like to think I know a little about pedigrees – I stress like to think – but when available previous racecourse performance is far more important in assessing a race. I doubt Lydia and Steve wasted a second looking up Berwick Law’s pedigree and I don’t blame them for that.
I don’t want to fall out with anyone but the times I have heard punters talk about stopping horses is tiresome to say the least.
Unfortunately the punter is the last concern of a good sensible trainer who knows his craft. That’s a fact of life I learned to live with a long time agoand lenny Lungo certainly knows his job better than most.
There is no way, if a horse is short of work, which this fellow no doubt was, are they going to knock 10 bells out of him, if all it’s going to do is sour the horse.
There is about a 99% probabilty they haven’t stopped this horse. What they have done is given him a quiet run. There is a very big difference and a steward with half a clue knows this.
Lenny Lungo is certainly not in bed with some big gambling syndicate. No one is paying him to stop a horse like this one. There is no way on this earth Lenny Lungo is stupid enough to risk his licence for a few hundred quid backhander from some course bookmaker. Nor is their some big massive gamble planned. He is a totally exposed animal and not the type you would lay out for a touch. If there was you wouldn’t have seen him anywhere within 60 lengths of the winner.
They know this horse better than anyone and they also know if he is ready to have a chance of winning or not.
Had they put him into the race as was suggested, all that would have happened is he would have finished in about exactly the same place only he would have blown up 3 out and been totally knackered after it.
These are the sort of things you should be looking for in races. That little something that tells you a horse is better than his last form implies.
Since racing began punters have moaned about horses being stopped. About 1 time out of 50 they might be right.
The trick is not stopping horses it’s having one that’s good enuogh to stop and there isn’t many of them going about. It happens a lot less than most people think.
Fist of Fury 2k8, some day you may be lucky enough to enter the real world.
Edit. I have too much respect for this forum and deleted some first hand experiences regarding the trainer.
Unfortunately the punter is the last concern of a good sensible trainer who knows his craft.
Its this kind of statement that really makes my blood boil, without us punters Mr. Lungo wouldn’t be training horses.Since racing began punters have moaned about horses being stopped. About 1 time out of 50 they might be right.
What a load of utter twaddle, apart from the obvious, what about the many forms of subtle non trying :
Running middle distance bred horses over sprint distances,
Running sprint bred horses over middle distances.
Running horses on ground they know the horse despises.
Running horses only 1/2 to 3/4 fit.
Running horses in apprentice races with very inexperienced rider up, where non trying is impossible to prove as you can always blame the jockeys lack of racecourse experience.
Jockeys deliberately missing the break espiecially in sprint races where making up the ground lost is next to impossible.
Front running hold up horses and vice versa.I am sure there is plenty more I didn’t think of.
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