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I just wonder because some months ago I started keeping a record of my wins and losses but then recently stopped doing so.
Despite starting well ahead, I lost quite a lot of money and by the end I deleted the file I was several hundred down and it was slipping fast.
I know it’s considered a good idea to keep a record of all your bets because that way you’ll know what bets will work for you and what won’t, but I noticed I started doing some bets by the end because i was purely chasing the money i was down, and that rather the amounts I was down was playing on my mind and dictating my betting.
I’d be interested if anyone else has had a similar experience, although from what I’ve seen about 99 percent of posters on betting forums claim that they are well ahead and never lose.
I don’t keep a record of my bets judge for the very reasons that you have given.
However, when I go to the races at Newmarket, approx 30 times a year,I always bring home my winnings and keep them in a tin to use next time I go. This past season the tin has yielded a profit and I have not had to top it up many times although I had a couple of winnerless days but generally have 2-3 winners each time I go and on the last day of the season I had 5 winners although none higher than 5/1.
I stake an average of £10 a race sometimes £20 plus money for coffee sandwiches etc.
Don’t want to know how much I have lost as I would start worrying and stop enjoying myself.
I’m always saying it but going racing is one of the few sporting venues where you can come out with more than you went in with. I love that challenge to beat the bookies and see the best thoroughbreds in the World whilst doing it
what could be better..JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...It’s all about being true to yourself. Keeping a record of your bets may lead some to hurried/bad decision making to get that profit margin looking good straight away. I experienced something different to that completely this year as I made £4,000 between June-July when I started recording and lost £3,000 between August-September. It was pretty gut wrenching as I could have been sensible and put that money to good use but it’s been a massive learning curve for me.
Of course after that I stopped recording my results and chased that money back through silly football bets and pretty much left myself back at square one. I’ll add that I upped my stakes at the start of June to £100-£400 a bet from £20-£50.I’ve started recording my bets on excel this month and it actually encourages me to be patient and its going well enough at the moment from lowered stakes of £50 a race.
Either way it’s all about you and the decisions you make and if you are encouraging yourself too much to have a bet to chase money down because your recorded results are at a loss then maybe it isn’t a good idea.Fair play on your honesty though Judge. Find out why they were mistakes, learn from them and be wise with your money.
My aim is to build myself back up slowly, ready for the 2017 flat season, to build on the profitable aspects of this season gone and learn from the losses. It helps that I bloody love watching the racing, bet or no bet.
I think it could help, depending on your rationale. However, I believe (from my personal experience) that after a few years of regular horse race watching and punting that you get to know which types of races are profitable for yourself. For example I know I personally am much better at punting on big field handicaps on the flat than any other type of race.
Does that stop me betting on other races? You damn right it doesn’t.
Discipline and impatience the death of 99% of punters, myself included
I do keep a record of my bets. I find it far easier to be disciplined when you’re putting every bet in black and white.
You’d never know if you were in orofit or loss otherwise and as mentioned by others you can learn plenty from past successes and even moreso losses.
That’s the point I find interesting, that you might know which bets work for you and which don’t but then your baser instincts override your analytical self and you end up doing these bets anyway. The only point of doing analysis is if it’s actually going to inform your betting in future.
One of the things I noticed was that I’d do better on any bets shorter than 2-1 than any other category in terms of to a level stake.
Between 2-1 and 5-1 I’d do quite badly and at longer odds I’d have very few winners. We’re consistently told as punters that “value betting” is the way to go, and although in some way I agree with this, I think it’s very easy to do a huge number of bets at larger odds and think it doesn’t matter whether or not they win, as eventually “one of them will hit”
I think it also helps to know what sort of trainers and jockeys (and even racetracks) you do well with. For example with Godolphin I was doing quite badly, so my theory was their runners were overbet, Hugo Palmer too, admittedly this is over not a large enough sample of bets but the logic behind it could be that trainers like Godolphin and Palmer have a huge media profile and their runners in general will be massively overbet.
By contrast Aiden O’Brien is a trainer I’ve never been particularly fond of but yet I was able to do quite well backing his runners.
Just because you do better with shorter price runners doesn’t mean you’re not backing ‘value’. On the contrary, if you’re making profit in your bets at 2/1 then you are backing value 2/1 shots. You may just simply be better at finding value in this price range than you are with longer prices runners.
We don’t always bet to make profit, I mean that sounds silly but if I’m having a cheeky £3 bet on my lunch break it’s as much to kill a bit of time and entertain myself/take my mind of work as it is to make money.
Judge, if you’re that concerned about chasing losses, why not just state if the bet won or lost and not record the stake ?
You’ll be able to see in which types of race your winning, stop placing bets in the those where losses are highly likely and, once confidence and returns as knowledge increases, you can return to keeping a record of the units staked.
I used to keep mine in a ledger and now on a spreadsheet. I feel that if you are betting with money you didn’t find on the floor you have to. Even if you bet to tenner units you’ll be astounded at your annual turnover, if you don’t like what you read then it’s time for a revaluation of your betting, why bury your head in the sand if you are losing. I always used to think that I won on multiple bets, last year those bets were into minus four-figures and a lesson was learnt.
Fantastic thread
Over the past four years (since I’ve been betting) I’ve done ok. Over the past 2 years I’ve built up a tidy sum choosing not to withdraw. In Sept and Oct this year (bar Champions day) was a torrid time losing 60% of my bank.
When Kingston Hill won the St Leger i had the most profitable time ever. There are no trends historically though and no period is a guide to another for me.
To answer the question I don’t have the time to record each bet. If I was depositing money into my accounts then I think I would probably stop gambling.
I hate losing, always have done. I accept I will lose some of the time. As long as I win overall. A quick tot up at the end of each month does the job. That’s my spreadsheet
In short, Judge, the answer is yes. Its essential to keep detailed records unless you are someone who is unconcerned, for whatever reason, about how much you lose, Most people, like yourself, are concerned and if losing most are prone to chasing losses, at least for a bit, before perhaps temporarily ceasing to bet. When they start betting again they will mentally wipe the slate clean. This is one way bookmakers make a profit!
One of the many keys to successful punting is to keep a record not only of the actual bet but also of the type of race, your analysis/notes pertaining to how you expect each horse to perform – everything that informed your selection.
The cumulative data can indeed be used to detect profitable types of races, courses, etc. Including an advantageous range of odds.
Personally I could find no consistent trend regarding various class/course/distance combinations, I bet on Jumps only and suspect it is harder to make a profit on Class 4 and below. I also feel that its hard to break even (at worse) on bets at 2/1 and below. However, I think the importance of value is overstated. Ultimately the only value bet is a winning one! Do you agree Thehorsesmouth?
Much depends on your strategy. Basically I bet on every Jumps race shown on RUK, £10 Win or £10 E/W if the horse is 16/1 or bigger & at least 3 places. I do not vary my stake and place all a day’s bets before racing (no multiples Simon!) I allow my interpretation of the form to dictate the bet/s in each race with few preconceptions.
Remember, more bets will be losers than winners for even the successful punter. Unshakeable confidence in your method and ability must be maintained during a run of unprofitable days. Sticking to a fixed stake removes the temptation to chase losses. It reduces losses. Patience is paramount.
Judge, if you’re that concerned about chasing losses, why not just state if the bet won or lost and not record the stake ?
You’ll be able to see in which types of race your winning, stop placing bets in the those where losses are highly likely and, once confidence and returns as knowledge increases, you can return to keeping a record of the units staked.
Yes good call. I’ll do that.
I effectively do have a record because I only have one online bookie account and all my bets are on the one site so I could look them all up providing the site has that information stored
I’ve never found the need to check though as I know how much I opened the account with in 2008 and I know how much is in now and I’ve never drawn anything out and never put any of my own money in (I have paid in some cash winnings from racing competitions)
So I know how much I’m in profit on betting and racing competitions since 2008…….it’s just the amount in my account minus the money I put in originally to open it (It’s about £280 profit over 8 years or approx £35 a year………not enough to give up work but better than losing)
I’ve kept a record for the last 4 years now. I don’t record any particular bets or anything like that, just a running total of profit or loss.
For me it’s been a good thing as I’ve done progressively better every year. So far this year I’m just under £900 in profit and that’s more than I’ve lost in the last 3!
I don’t have any particular strategy just do different bets all the time…whatever the mood takes. Being totally honest I’m a proper mug punter at times but I bet as an enjoyment and not to win. I have weekly budgets and don’t go over them…therefore I don’t chase. I’m not embarrassed to say that I’m given a weekly amount by my better half because of troubles I had when young, daft and care free…that added bit of discipline is probably another help.
When it all boils down to it though I don’t think you can underestimate how much luck plays a part! We’ve all done it…spent hours looking at a race and been made to look a complete mug and at other times used the exact same theory and it makes you look a genius! My only kind of strategy really now is striking while the iron is hot in purple patches and always putting away a decent percentage from winning runs so to not give it back…
It’s working for me at present anyway!
Judge it’s not about oneupmanship. I spend most of my time travelling to racecourses and juggle that with a young family. Hence I don’t have the time to study enough to show a profit. I have followed my mate Andrew Mount who writes a column for GG.com and his own personal marks, and Roger Bush who charges for tips via his WestCountry Racing for years. Last year both sources made a profit but I found myself £726 down over the year. Like I said in a previous post I always thought I won money on multiples, last year was the first time I used a detailed spreadsheet including multiples. There was no hiding the fact I lost over £3000 betting to win fortunes on doubles trebles etc. Both my sources look for value, and they both win. Of course you could hit a treble and win a row of houses but the odds against it are true odds, I slashed my multiple outlay by 10 so instead. This year they are still costing me £400 but I always like to give myself the chance of a big win, except now it will be a house and not a row. The other thing I have learned over the years is staking is probably the most important part of any successful betting. You need a decent bank, I’d say if you bet to £10 units you’ll need a grand. Every winner finding source be it your own skill or my lazy way will suffer bad losing runs. If it’s value you look for, very long ones, and they take the mick too, beaten by noses, fifth in 16 runner handicaps etc but if your bank is there and you stay disciplined it can change in an instant and you have that psychological edge. Back in 2008 I had the best year ever, upped my stake from £20 to £40 a point and nearly went skint after the worst run of luck you can imagine in 2009, my lesson well and truly learned. I’m now comfortable with tenners in the knowledge that with 100 points in reserve I’m going to withstand the worse betting can throw. If you don’t stick to a discipline you’ll end up losing, whatever your level. This year has worked out pretty much as last but I’m not doing my £3k on multiples so nicely up.
what could be better..Jac
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