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The hype surrounding camelot is a bit of a joke. The horse won 1 decent race, and yes he won well . BUT 1 RACE.. against his own age. Please. Frankel would give him a bath but we will never find out because cecil is too scared to take frankel more than an hour from his box. And that is why BC will be known as one of the greats and frankel will be that horse that had loads of ability abut never proved anything. You cannot claim to be the bet in the world when you don’t race the rest of the world, despite what ratings say.
Have no problem with SYT staying the trip in the arc. He ran third in a melbourne cup 3200m. While he didn’t have his normal turn of foot at the end i think 2400 would be a different story. he relaxes in his reaches a lot better now too. His speed will take him a long way in the arc and people who don’t think he has a good turn of foo should watch some of his races in aus. It is devastating.
Super horse. I said before the race the frankel needed to destroy CC to the live up the hype and he did. Great performance. No point trying to compare him to past greats, especially horses that run over different distances. Is just too hard to do and many excuses can always be made and most of them will have some claims. I dont buy into " he cant be called one of the greats if he doesnt win over 10f". That is plain stupid. Do you think usain bolt wont be called a great because he didnt win an olympic gold over 400m?? look at black caviar in Australia, she is horse of the year and is unquestionably the best horse in Australia. she is a sprinter. And whilst on BC, I’ve noticed the same thing happens to frankels rivals as to hers. It’s not her rivals that run a poor race, its that they get run into the ground and out of their comfort zone when trying to keep up. Go on you tube and watch her races and then watch frankels. Their rivals are always off the bit and hanging. Its what happens when a horse is taken out of its comfort zone.
Could you imagine a race over 1400 with Black Caviar V Frankel??
Well done frankel. amazing effort
I don’t think Galileo would fair any better in Australia now even with a better crop of mares. The reason being, that like most sadlers wells line stallions, the majority of his progeny need some cut in the ground to be effective and in Australia that sort of ground is not common. Only really in europe is it common, hence his success in europe. His stats, especially this season, have been amazing and I think he is a great stallion for that part of that would but only that part of the world. It is for that reason alone that he his not in the same league as the likes of Northern Dancer, Mr Prospector, Danzig and Danehill. Noting that Northern Dancer is responsible for Danzig and likewise Danehill
Northern Dancer by a street. The other 2 whilst being great stallions, have only proven successful in the northern hemisphere. Northern Dancers reign stretches over the entire racing world. Galileo has had great start to his stud career but the fact he failed at stud in Australia means he can never be compared to Northern Dancer. Danehill was a better stallion than Galileo, maybe the best of them all. His stats are unparalleled
89 group 1 winners
Champion sire in Australia 9 times
Champion sire in England and Ireland 3 times
Champion sire in France 2 times.That is world dominance like no other. Too bad stallions didn’t shuttle in Northern Dancers time. Who knows what could have been
In what way am I disputing his ability. All i have said is that he has not proven he is up there with the best horses in the world YET. Im not going to go guessing whether he is or not because i actually don’t know. He has not had the chance to prove it. Thats all this conversation is about . PROOF
And maybe i was a bit harsh with the U21 comment but how do you know he is as good as the very best players.. There is no way anyone can know yet because there is no PROOF. There is a very good chance he is but the topic of this thread was proven form
I am always a believer in a horse is only as good as what its beaten. Times in racing are very fickle and tactics plays a huge part so they cannot be taken on face value. Frankel is clearly the best of his generation and is dominant.The question is "Is his generation any good?". CC has raced against other generations than his own and is a proven out and out and class horse. Frankel may well be a world beater and is very likely to come out and win the sussex comfortably, but until he does, he is not proven against anyone other than his own age. It’s like winning the U21 world cup. You are clearly very good but to be called a superstar you have to beat everyone.
On this subject I find it hard to believe that Frankel is leading the horse of the year awards. He is clearly champion 3 year old but he hasn’t met the likes of CC and SYT. And is TF rating is equal to SYT, thats crazy for all the reasons outlined above. I am in no way disputing Frankel’s ability and I am a huge fan. He could turn out to be one of the greats, but to say he is the equal of SYT is predicting the future instead of reviewing what has actually taken place.. As I said, I am in no way saying frankel isn’t a star, because he is, i just would like to see him win a race against open class proven group 1 horses. Then we can start to talk horse of the year awards
Interesting that world cup says dirt then. Makes more sense to be on sythetic.
Im not challenging the breeders cup status as a race as I know many great horses have won it and gone onto great stud careers. But as ive stated it seems to be losing its gloss in recent times. For SYT it makes little sense and Giants Causeway is an example why it would be of little worth. GC was a dud at stud down under (where SYT will comfortably command his biggest fee) along with mnay other dirt performed horses over the years. On a global scale in modern times, a dirt group 1 means not much outside of the US.
http://www.equinews.com/article/fatal-h … tic-tracks
Thanks for your insight. Synthetic tracks are starting to be built all through australia now due to recent droughts and we too have had some growing pains. Water consumption of our turf tracks in southern australia during summer is always a talking point because as you stated they are thirsty
IMO if he wins a 3rd cox plate he is in the top few horses to ever race in Australia. and if he turns up 90% fit or better he will win as middle distance weight for age racing in AUS is that not deep at the moment.. However if he wins an arc then he will be the best middle/stayer distance horse in the world and one of the all time greats to dominate both hemispheres. That cant be disputed. Whether he is capable of winning an arc, I’m not sure. But he has done nothing to prove he cant so deserves his go. He did just beat last years arc winner giving him 2 lengths with 2 to go so class is not a problem. Wouldn’t think 12f would be either be as long as he settles. He never has a bad run, always gives everything and is very adaptable.
Im an Australian and love seeing him in australia, but he deserves his chance to put his name up there with the greats. Whether coolmore will risk it is another matter. But imagine his reputation/stud fee with and arc next to his name..
