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Doc Wells is favourite for his first run of the campaign in the 2:10 at Carlisle today. Everyhing appears to be in his favour, with the step to 3m appearing to suit, if he’s ready to go first time up, i’d be hopeful he’ll beat this lot today.
Hi Lewey
I understand what your saying, and I think if I weren’t quite such a fanatic i’d probably agree. But I personally would find it even harder if we only had horses say rated 110 or better over jumps and 70 or better on the flat, halving the number of races and horses, would mean that those that don’t put quite so much time into it, would stand a better chance and hence I would find if more difficult. That may well be a selfish view, but I enjoy a 0-90 handicap chase as much as i do a 0-130.
I’m not blind to the fact that not all horses are trying all of the time, although by the sound of it, i don’t think they is quite as much "corruption" as you do. Although it depends what you mean exactly, I see a lot of horses running on the wrong ground and over the wrong trip who almost certainly can’t win, sometimes because the trainer hasn’t got a clue and sometimes just to get the handicap mark down a bit. If you see that as cheating, then yes a lot of it goes on. Personally I see that as playing the game, and if you follow the sport closely, you can pick up on these things and turn them to your advantage.
I also prefer a day out on a monday at Plumpton or a sunday at a point to point, to a day at Royal Ascot or Glorious Goodwood. If we lost some of the smaller tracks, which if you cut the amount of racing, would be inevitable, i would be most upset.I personally don’t see the problem with having 8 races on a card, frankly what difference does it make. Particularly if i go racing, i’d much rather have 8 races to watch than 6.
I’m probably in the minority, but from a punting perspective, I prefer the low grade stuff. I think I’ve much more of a chance of spotting something in a selling handicap hurdle that no-one else has, than a grade 1 chase, which although i love to watch, realistically i’m not going to get an edge over everyone else, as the form is there for everyone to see and an awful lot more people will be looking at it.Reet Hard/Equitrack, Quite clearly were not going to agree completely on this matter, although I don’t think were all that far apart, we all hate the machines. To my mind it’s all about freedom of choice, and although i hate the term "nanny state", thats kind of what it comes down too, if your going to start banning everything some people have a problem with, what would you have left quite frankly.
If a punter did come in every friday as you say Happy, and your saying went home broke, then i’d like to think if i worked in a shop i might try and say something, but as Zarkava says, how on earth would you know they had done their weeks wages unless they actually told you…
Equitrack, I have no doubt that if you carried out a survey purely on 18-30 year olds than FOBT’s would come out way ahead of racing and everything else, I’m not sure why your singling out that age range, and I don’t agree with Zee Zoo who says that by getting rid of them, those people would start betting on racing instead, a few might, the majority I doubt it. Even if for arguments sake, the majority did, why is it ok for them to gamble their weeks wages on racing and not on FOBT’s, good for racing yes, more money in the pot, still leaves the mug/addicted punter broke.
I’ve exhausted my thoughts on the subject. In summary, I don’t like the things, will never play on one personally and agree they are easy to get hooked on, in short they only do good for the bookies, agreed. But as i’ve said before, ban them, where do you stop….in this online age, they are a mere drop in the ocean.
It’s an interesting debate, if i woke up tomorrow and they had completely disappeared, I would be cheering, but the reality is they are here to stay.Equitrack, "racing has had decades to corrupt generations" well yes, why i can’t say thats not true. If someone gets addicted to something, whether it’s drinking,drugs,or gambling it surely doesn’t matter how long whatever it is, has been around, internet bingo wasn’t around a few years ago, and now thousands are hooked on that. As soon as alcopops came out, within months, a lot of teenagers were hooked on them.
Reet Hard, I’m not sure where I compared odds as any justification, if it came across like that, it wasn’t the intention. I agree about the fact that the machiens don’t give, as you say "a time to reflect" that is of course the case, but actually if someone has an addiction, thats probably irrelevant, those that have a problem gambling on horses/dogs/sports in general, they have time to reflect, but because they have a problem, it doesn’t work like that (i don’t mean to sound patronising, it’s perhaps too early in the morning)
You say that
"Any problems the bookmakers have are entirely a result of their own greed, much more of a worry is the long-term effect their greed is having on racing"
Can you clarify what you mean here, although it’s of course not so black and white, racing is bringing about it’s own downfall, we all know turnover has been dropping for years, it not been through bookmakers turning their back on it, it’s punters turning their back on racing. Let me make it clear that I’m a huge racing fan, but it’s only by chance i got hooked early, otherwise like virtually everyone else i know who is my age, i’m sure i wouldn’t have come into contact with it at all.
Bookmakers don’t have a duty to sponsor the number of races they do, where would the industry be if they decided against race sponsorsip, a lot worse off is the answer!
I’m getting a little tired of saying it, and i’m guessing Zarkava feels the same. Neither of us is saying we like the damn machines, but where do you end it all? No more fruit machines in pubs… they are basically the same thing, just a lower jackpot in most cases.
Now that people can set up an internet account in minutes and use their credit card online to play numerous games etc, gambling addiction is only ever going to get worse.Happy,
If your suggesting the bookies are abandoning racing, i have to take issue with that. It’s the punters abandoning racing they has made the bookies look elsewhere, not the other way around.
Also as was mentioned earlier on, gamcare report that addiction by caused by betting on racing is still just ahead of that of FOBT’S.
Zee Zoo
I think we are basically singing from the same hymn sheet. Of course you stand a chance on racing if you put the work in, I was just commenting that a so-called "mug" punter wouldn’t stand anymore chance of turning a profit on a horse race than on a roulette machine, actually given the overround they would probably be better off sticking their tenner on the machine!
I’ve never played a machine,and have no intention too, but take them away from the betting shops, and you might find quite quickly that your local betting shop will disappear with it!Zee Zoo, I’m sorry but why is it ok to have them in a casino and not in a betting shop? I can perfectly understand why you don’t like them, just to clarify, I don’t like them either. But I can’t understand the argument you make, is it a case of out of sight out of mind? because you frequent betting shops and not casinos, they are ok in one but not the other?
As far as the levy contributions go, I wouldn’t mind betting that if you asked the people who use the machines, if they weren’t there, would they bet on racing instead, the overwhelming majority would say no.
Finally, these mug punters as you call them, if they are indeed "mugs" why would they stand anymore chance betting on horses, the odds are in favour of the bookies on racing too (as i’m sure you know)Zarkava, your £25,000 profit in 4 weeks must have been an above average week, but i can well believe it.
Marble, I think you make some valid points. My own personal opinions are along a similar line. Starting with the odds for example. I work in the Studio of Ladbrokes and surprisingly their are more people who don’t bet at all (say apart from the lottery) than those than do. The majority of those that don’t find 13/8, 11/4 etc very confusing, and unless your working with those odds a lot, i can see why. I would be sad to see the fractions disappear, but a move to displaying more decimilisation would probably help in the long run, if upsetting the old guard in the short-term.
I think as far as racing is concerned, you could probably write an essay on the subject of why people are betting less on the sport. I’m 28,and have been engrossed in racing since 6/7, just by watching the national, being captured by Desert Orchid and it’s just grown from there. I work with a lot of people who are of a similar age, and only one other has any interest at all in it. At work, most think it’s all crooked, far too difficult to understand, and a few think it’s cruel. Nearly all live and have always lived in london, and I it’s just not something they have ever really come into contact with. I’ve managed to get a few to go racing, and they all said they enjoyed it and would go again, so I think there is hope, it’s just getting people through the gates initially.
Sorry, I’ve gone off the point a little. What I’m trying to say is, unless you do have something of a gambling addiction, why would you bet (more than a couple of quid anyway) on something that you don’t understand? Having the racing post splattered all over the wall is all well and good, but if you’ve know idea how to interprete the information, it’s not much good to you.
I think the "instant fix" argument is probably the most relevent. Someone has £20 in their pocket, they have no desire to put in any form study etc, they are happy to select a few numbers, spend 10 minutes on a machine and see if they get lucky. Virtual racing wouldn’t have any takers if this sort of gambler didn’t exsist.
The machines are here to stay, and I’m not sure of anyone read the story the other day, but Ladbrokes are opening "a shop within a shop" so 8 of the contraptions can be installed, if no objections are raised, more of the same can be expected.Ok, she pulled up in the end. But she ran too freely and showed up well for a long way, and much better can be expected next time.
I don’t want to give false information as they aren’t something i’m involved with. But I think I’m right in saying that the average margin is in the region of about 5%. So for every £100 put into each machine, the profit made is £5, which gives you some idea of just how much people are pumping into them each week.
Hi Marble
I personally don’t have anything to do with the machines, and admit i haven’t read any research into what "problem gamblers" are more likely to get hooked on. Although I don’t doubt that people are more likely to get addicted to the machines, then say betting on horses.
I don’t like the things, I think it’s sad, that on the odd occasion i go into a shop, I hear people who think they have them sussed. But from the view of the bookmakers, it’s obvious why they have gone done this route. Shop trade on sports betting is falling all the time, and the machines are a vital part of keeping a high street prescence.
In saying what I said before, what I meant was, that gambling is gambling, in whatever form, if you take them away, the people with the problem will go to an arcade, or turn to online casinos etc.Graeme, A FOBT, is a Fixed Odds Betting Terminal.
I work for ladbrokes at head office, and I know that we make an average of over £600 per machine per week, and there are 4 in every shop. I don’t really think you can argue that they are in anyway anymore unethical than any other form of gambling.Thedeboftheyear goes in the first at Exeter today. It’s not a great race. The unexposed Nicholls horse is the favourite, but I believe this mare will prove to be a 130 horse in time and I shall be disappointed if she doesn’t go very close to winning today, providing she is ready to do so on her seasonal debut.
Very remiss of be to forget about Starluck. Well that was exactly what I was hoping for, a long way to go, but would anyone turn down 300’s now for the champion, I doubt it. He looked a lot stronger today, appears to have done very well over the summer.
The Shy Man departed 4 out, when holding every chance, it was too early to know whether he would have won, but given that the first 3 finished within a length, i’m convinced he would have been bang there. Patman Du Charmil ran much better than at anytime last season, the way he pinged the last suggested he had a bit left, and i’m not sure he was putting it all in up the hill. This was a much improved effort, but he does tend to go well fresh and this run means he might not be much value next time.
-£4.50 (to a level £1 stake) overall combined of the 2 lists at the end of Saturday 17th October.
