Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
From just running against his age and the combination of having to carry weight as an older horse when stepping up in class.
Apologies, still getting used to this place. It’s hard not to react kike that when your opions get **** down as bias constatly.
Agreed, there will be no fooling around with her, too much at stake.
It’s interesting how we think differently, different instincts. I guess we’re all products of our environments. I mean – ginger – correct me if I’m wrong – your thoughts re Workforce’s form from 3yo to 4yo are that he performs better at 2400m than he does at 2000m or he didn’t train on or the stable was in bad form. My thoughts differ. In a normal year Workforce would’ve been packed off to stud a champion. I don’t think he could handle the rise in class & weight. Other horses also had a chance to catch up maturity wise. Where I’m from thats nothing unusual, happens all the time as our 3yo "champs" almost always race on at 4.
Just been searching the forum for where en aussie claimed a 30 length win hard held. Where did u see that?
"As for the outcome of the Lockinge. Well this could the best opportunity Excelebration has to beat his nemesis, with having had the run and the the Cecil string have been a little hit and miss this spring,"
I’ve read these sort of comments before, in another thread on here re the the trainers form… Is it the trainers of the horses? Peter Moody could’ve trained a rocking horse 12 months ago, everything was winning. Since then, not so much but the class horses keep on winning… I’d expect Frankel to win this quite easily..
I say mayson win at his previous start, though he looked impressive and was shocked when he wasn’t placed the other day. Thanks for the explanation.
I reckon Moody will be hoping for either the extreme inside or outside barrier. I also think that she will be the last horse loaded into the gates, just my opinion of course…
Takeover Target NEVER had a positive swab after any race is the only point I am making. Janiak is a cab driver who got lucky.
Bart was whingeing that his old mate, Dato, was taking his best (current, and in his 80’s Bart ain’t gunna have another one) horse off him. As for the Aussies hyping him up on here, passionate/biased racing fans. So You Think was never as good as Northerly nor Might & Power, though he got a Timeform rating better – for the breeders, they rule the racing world. So You Think dominated here is a very, very weak period for middle distance horses, which continues today. Thus the reason that 2nd & 3rd tier horses from your neck of the woods such as Americain, Manighar, My Kingdom of Fyfe, Glass Harmonium, Lucas Cranach, etc, have been very competitave and in some cases dominant here.
The sprinting brigade, however, has gone from strength to strength, what with our idiotic breeding to a moronic $3million race for 2yos, ludicrous, impatience by owners & breeders. This is why the first 7 horses over the line in last years Melbourne Cup were European, we have NO stayers & very little at middle distance, some handy milers.
Don’t fall into any hypre re More Joyous, she’s a miler full stop. You will hear some Aussies say she could be anything but she isn’t, she’s a 3 length inferior horse to So You Think over 2000m so you can rate her according to that.
The only other horses we have here, aside from sprinters, that have the potential to compete on a world scale are Atlantic Jewel (but she is owned by Coolmore and now her TF rating is as high as Sunline’s – ludicrous how they rate a 7 length win in a G1 race for 3yo fillies as equivalent as a 7 length romp in a Cox Plate) and Mosheen (who will end up in Japan).
Europe has far, far more depth than Oz ar racing over a mile plus, it’s just a shame that most of your champs retire before they are TRULY tested….. That is what frustrates me with TF ratings of Euros, high rating to 3yo against other 3yos or with a weight advantage against older horses…
Sorry for the rant, but I enjoy this forum & the conversations..
SYT one our ALL TIME GREATS? Don’t confuse the Coolore Hyperbole with the facts tsk tsk, and no, Frankel wouldn’t win a handicap over here. With a timeform rating of 142 he’d be asked to carry 2 jockeys!
Yes, the reason is he can’t beat Frankel, on exposed form anyway. It does nothing for his stud value (is he going to have one left after the Breeder’s Cup/Dubai Cup debarcles) in running 2nd. he needs to win races. You’l find out the same here as we have learnt with Black Caviar – pretty soon other connections are sick of running for 2nd prizemoney and choose to dodge, thus the fields that he will beating by year’s end or next year, will be poorer than what he was doing at the end of last term.
Not really thread related, apologies. Ginger, see link below..
"So don’t be an arrogant Aussie, claiming we are "ignorant and know nothing about them". "
Ginger, I won’t speak on AIC’s behalf but another poster, HGM, claimed he had never heard of the Lightning Stakes until recently. I’m sure he is included in your "we" in the above quote. I’m sure that individuals in each hemisphere do thier homework just as I’m sure there are probably more that are either illinformed or not informed.
The Lightning Stakes has been the benchmark WFA Sprint in Oz for over 20 years now, many of our "champions" have won the race. I know that you’ve seen the likes of Nicconi – he was an exception, had talent but very inconsistent, Miss Andretti (had a good season or 2) but I urge you to look up horses like Schillaci, Mahogany (dual winner whom also won 2 Derbies!). Of course you know Choisir & Take Over Target. The only one of those that would get near Black Caviar is Schillaci and only as a 3yo…
Yes joni, an exceptional lot.
Ginger, do you honestly think that an Australian 3yo winning 9 of 9, only 2 outside of his age group, would ever, ever be given a rating of 143? Personally I can’t see it.
I don’t know who the best is but I do think that it’s premature for Frankel to be given a rating of over 140, just my opinion of course.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t rate him, of course I do, as well as Zenyatta. But are they over rated??? Maybe Black Caviar is too..
Think I’ll just enjoy the fact that I can see them all race..
HGM, I am a lover of quality horse racing all over the world. I don’t just limit my knowledge or interest to Australia. We, in Oz, are lucky to get the best racing from around the world televised or else it can be obtained over the internet. I urge you to look at the 2011 & 2012 Lightning Stakes, look at the times, the rating & records of the competitors…
Thank god for the last 2 posts by Ginger & jollyp, I was starting to look up for an ACME piano to fall on my head, some of the posts here are "looney tunes"….
HGM if the "average UK punter" doesnt rate winning a race in Australia then it’s not worth a substantial reply. Those that have a clue can see how good she is. Dont be fooled by the media & think that the Melbourne Cup is rated as Australia’s best quality race. we know it’s a handicap etc.
Scenic Blast’s rating went up by winning the Kings Stand &it wasnt even the best field he had faced; this shows either bias or ignorance on part of the raters. Also I doubt her connections give a toss re the UK breeders, why would they?
As for Breeders Cup, most over rated meeting in the world. How many genuine A graders have Europe sent over? IMO this year’s Lightning Stakes is one of the highest ratwd races you find anywhere in the world tbus year but alas it’s only an Aussie race
Also, himself, it was the Hong Kong mile, not Singapore.But back to the topic: Black Caviar really hasn’t done herself any favors by sticking to Australia for so long. At 21-for-21 the only horse above her is Kincsem, yet she doesn’t seem to garner as much attention as Zenyatta did. And it’s not like Zenyatta was facing world-class competition every race, but at least she showed up in the Breeders Cup three years running. Even going to Ascot I’m not sure how much she proves.
PLEASE!!!
(a) It’s not Black Caviar’s decision where she races.
(b)Not as much attention as Zenyatta?? Maybe in the US "fishbowl" she doesn’t, everywhere else that knows & cares about racing outside their own country gives her far more attention than Z.
(c) Breeders Cups you say – she never had to travel, She did beat a World class field in the Classic, She lost against an average field the year after (yes, butchered by the jockey) & she beat fillies & mares the first time. The BC aint be all & end all of race meetings.
(d) Let’s look at their records…Zenyatta raced 20 times for 19-1-0 (should have been 20-0-0).
All bar 2 of those races were aginst her own sex!!
1 x G1 Open
12 x G1’s F&M
4 x G2’s F&MBlack Caviar 21-0-0
11 x G1 Open
1 x G1 F&M
6 x G2 Open
1 x G2 3yo OpenI’m sorry, Zenyatta was a great champion but she doesn’t hold a candle to Black Caviar.
I agree re the decision to go to the UK though, nothing to gain bar showing the English how good she is first hand. I think that it’s more about the owners than the horse which is a shame. She shopuld have gone to Dubai, Japan & Hong Kong.
