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steve
My comments regarding your dietry principals were made in jest. If they offended you then I’m sorry.
There is a ban and a ban. One where foxhunting is banned and the other where it isn’t. We are currently serving the latter which p**s
es me off. Legislation is just another word for bulls**t
.Animals kill animals and I’m powerless to stop that. I’m not god.
By the way, you haven’t even acknowledged my questions let alone answered them.
Lolly’s mate
That post must have been a p**s
take and if it isn’t, you’re a dickhead.It is a scientific fact that horses can carry a man on his back without feeling pain. It is a scientific fact that murder at any level hurts. You can’t argue with science. It’s killing our earth but you still can’t argue with it.
Hi Elaine
You know I always have time for your comments. However, don’t you feel that those ‘excess funds’ would be better placed in the development of the deprived third world rather than returning to the pockets of the self serving philanthropists?
Hi Ian
Apathy is a b*****d
. Justifications don’t help either.Hey dudes
After being asked some really irrelevant questions from steve’I don’t eat animals except for fishes because they don’t have any feelings’dvg, I figured that I should give you pro hunting folk some questions of my own.
Do foxes enjoy spending the last 15 minutes of their life being chased for the amusement of a minority?
List the justifications of being a carnivore. Then list the justifications of fox hunting.
Do the foxes feel pain when the hounds tear into them?
Would you like it if your pets / beloved horses were murdered sadistically in the name of fun?
Who’s fault is it that thousands of hounds will be put down?
Were those hounds only worthy of being accessories to murder rather than being respected and treated as the most loyal friend to man should be?
Aren’t horses going to be put down for their lack of occupation?
Can’t horses enjoy a fruitful and enjoyable life as a pointer (keep PTP alive, grass roots) – rather than a tool?
Do you hate foxes?
Do you think that bullfighting is cruel?
Hi dj
Perhaps you are right in that business offered a catalyst for improved services and good economic management. However, the want of profit tends to get in the way of morals for most companies that do very well for themselves.
Regarding your reasons of business failings, they have this lovely notion of franchising which combat the ‘unders’ you mentioned. A notion that’s always been very popular with McDonalds.
China will be bombed by America before it becomes the superpower it’s expected to be in 10 years time. s**t
. WW3 in my lifetime:( :( :( :( :( Oh well, we have to go someday and it’s good to know that we died for a good cause.Anyways, here is another company I added to my boycott list. Coors. I wouldn’t touch the stuff anyway but here are some of the drinks that could easily be touched.
Caffreys<br>Carling<br>Grolsch<br>Reef<br>Worthingtons
The Coors group are an American company and a boycott American goods stance is for the individual.
Nonetheless, with this particular company, by supping their hooch you are funding a Coors family with a somewhat ignoble history in race relations. Back in the 1920s Adolph Coors Sr.’s family friend and lawyer owned Castle Rock, the monumental red-rock knob that overlooked the Coors Brewery property. The rock was lent to the KKK for cross burnings that could be seen from all over Denver.
In 1964 during the Civil Rights Act debate, William Coors pressed for the failure of the bill. He called upon his entire workforce to contact their Senators to oppose the bill, lying and telling them that sixty white employees would lose their jobs to black people if the bill passed.
In 1984, William Coors told a group of Black and Mexican American businessmen that if they thought it was "unfair" that their "ancestors were dragged here in chains against their will…I would urge those of you who feel that way to go back to where your ancestors came from, and you will find out that probably the greatest favor that anybody ever did you was to drag your ancestors over here in chains, and I mean it."
The Coors family also in the past, contributed to funding for the CIA sponsored Contras in Nicaragua during the 1980s while it has also supported organisations opposed to democratisation in South Africa prior to the collapse of Apartheid.
In December 2001, Joseph Coors gave Ward Connerly $100,000 for his so-called "Racial Privacy Act" (Prop 54), the California ballot initiative that aims to make it illegal for any state institution to collect racial or ethnic data, making it impossible to expose patterns of discrimination.
On December the 27th 2001, Coors purchased Carling for £1.2 Billion and I’m sure that if the boards at the two racially sensitive Glaswegian clubs knew of Coors unsavoury exploits, they wouldn’t have accepted their sponsorship. Surely not.
Hi everybody
Cheers for this thread Zoz – always a potentially useful one if nothing else.
There is a countless amount of horses with countless degrees of ability that have dropped off the radar and it would be re-assuring to know that we’ve devoted much of our recreational time on a sport that at least keeps records of its former combatants.
Racing Post really should bring back the scratchings "feature" simply in the name of closure.
BTW, if anybody can tell me how Dark Fountain is doing, I’d be most grateful.
Hi steve
What can I say – though not my idea of fun, it has certainly been interesting spending the best part of our day bickering with eachother without giving anybody else the chance to speak.
My dreams and desires are those of finding true love and living in a hate free world. Not having a mobile phone with the internet and a ****<br>ing ringtone service.
By Maggie, I meant the Tories who pretty much dominated the years preceding and proceding my birth. The same tories who said privatisation (letting individuals take the blame for modern failings rather than the state itself) was a good thing.
Many of products you gave me would have been / were invented without the need of commercial gain. Most notably the car, the telephone and the plane. The automatic washing machine, the microwave and the one hour photo development (you can wait a week or so for a good picture can’t you?) are items which mankind would have survived quite happily without before knowledge of their existance. In my household, we are devoid of two of the above three and what we have still gets us by. (BTW, I want us to get rid of the washing machine but what are you going to do when they fed, clothed and housed you for your first 21 years?)
Business is still a zero sum game.
Would you like to name one useful innovation in any of those fields that has come out the Western world in the last 10 years?
In Britain, they educated too many admin officials and the excess were left to rot. In America, they educated too many lawyers and the excess were left to rot. In Cuba, they educated too many doctors so they were sent to other poor countries to do what they dreamed to do.
In Cuba – attention was paid to the AIDS chrisis which was ignored by the west simply because western governments refused to admit that there was a problem until it was too late. Between 1984 and 1994 177 cubans had died of AIDS compared to the 28,000 that died in New York alone which has a similar population size.
With regards to your justification of using unsustainable resources whilst we can, are you saying that you wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice a years worth of electricity for the sake of guaranteeing energy for your grand children and their grandchildren etc?
(Edited by Kotkijet at 11:46 pm on Feb. 21, 2005)
Hi Aston
Every time I part with money, I make sure to read the label just to see that there is no relation of the product to a big nasty. If there is only Coke or Pepsi, I look for tap water that sort of thing.
Boycotting products probably won’t work in my lifetime because of the apathy and acceptance displayed by the best part of the western worlds population. Nonetheless, it feels a bit better knowing that whilst we have all collectively sent the world to hell in a hand basket, I had very little to do with it.
Hi steve
Maggie sold us the same tripe when privatising – well everything. It was merely an exercise in cutting public spending.
Cuba is a country without competitive markets and the level of education means that technological, scientific and medical progress is still as effective in a competitive environment.
We shouldn’t be exploring for fossil fuels because they take thousands of years to develop and can only be used once. Sustainable and renewable energy sources should be the absolute priority
To everybody that boycotts even the one product because of ethics then you get a big imaginary slap on the back from me.
Hi steve
(1) Fewer foxes would be killed by humans. Fewer may even be born at all considering that some are bred with the ‘sport’ in mind.
(2) I didn’t dodge. I don’t think that animals should be killed at all by humans. Be it painfully or less painful.
(3) I don’t think animals should be killed for food, sport or clothing.
(4) OK. All means of killing foxes should be abandoned.
(5) Bullying was A reason. Wasn’t the best I know.
Hi steve
1000 is a nice round number.
The 1000 people to start with is the worlds entire population. We will say that all the businesses are sole traders and the workers, along with the consumers, also make up this 1000.
The 1000 items of resources is everything in the world.
I thought this was a pretty clear concept.
A betting exchange with 1000 users would be similar to a world with 1000 people. In a betting exchance, it is impossible for all (or most users in fact) to make a profit.
In wheeling and dealing, it is an inevitability that there will be losers and that happens in real life.
I have three younger brothers and because of their respective abilities and motivations, one of them is going to be more successful that the other two. I will always view my three brothers as equals but that isn’t the view society takes when it comes to judging their merits or distributing the wealth.
Hi steve
Give me some arguments on how murder for fun (it’s nothing else) is ethical.
(1) No. Because it isn’t a ban on hunting. It is hunting in another name. Apparently more foxes die in Scotland after the ban than before the ban. On Saturday, the death toll of 91 nearly matched the figure of 12 months ago. The hunters will use all the loopholes (defences my arse) and push the tolerance of the police as far as they can to get their fix of blood lust.
(2) Humans have no right to kill them in the first place.
(3) The moral of being nice to those smaller than you rather than torturing them for your own amusement is being as basic and as consistant as they come.
(4) Hunting isn’t being banned. Just certain methods. In another universe, I’ve been banned from marching with 1000 thugs looking for and killing Man Utd fans. Instead having all of my thugs charge the streets of Falmouth and Torquay, I can now only send a maximum of 2 thugs into the rags house – wait for him to be flushed out and then I can carry on killing – business as usual.
(5) Because New Labour will appease the social democrats and stay in power without actually having to abolish blood sports.
Personally, class / status isn’t a reason I hate foxhunting. Bullying is a reason I hate fox hunting. You can tell me all day that people of all classes love and partake in foxhunting and the two things I will tell you are <br>(1) I couldn’t give a s**t<br> – that is beside the point.<br>(2) Actually, I don’t know anybody in the council estates I frequent that goes hunting. There’s the opportunity to follow the pennine hunt on foot but nobody seems to take that opportunity around these parts.
I’m not going to dignify your last comments with a response (apart from that, and that…..)
(Edited by Kotkijet at 3:59 pm on Feb. 21, 2005)
Hi Steve
Are you pro choice on everything unethical? I’m sure that if foxes could talk, they would all choose not to be chased up and down hills to exhaustion before being painfully disembowled in the name of fun.
Hi tdk<br>I hold very strong opinions on the issue and welcome apathetic people pointing out anything I say that’s hypocritical. It would give me something to think about and work on if need be. I’m not perfect and I won’t try to be but I will make efforts to cause as little damage to nature in the time I spend on this planet.
Anyway, does anybody know the name of that lord character on Countryfile yesterday morning because I was offended by his comments. On being asked how he thought he would cope with the anti-hunt lobby, he said with a smirk that "Britain managed 6 years of Hitler….."
After watching The Yes Men on Friday night, I thought that this toff must have been a satirical p**s
take but if he wasn’t then he really should be reprimanded and have his lordship stripped from him and shoved up his ar$e. Comparing vegetarians to Hitler just shouldn’t be done.And that dog farmer who said that most of the hounds (and it’s safe to assume Horses will suffer as well) will be put down if foxhunting is banned.
This is a pro hunting argument. These dogs are only loved if they are used to kill for fun and are worthless if they can’t hunt. I guess they have to kill something, even their beloved horses and hounds.
I can assure you that not one of those animals will be killed in my or the anti hunt lobbys name.
Hi steve
1000 people <br>1000 items of resource (can be anything you like)
500 of those people use a good business model, good management and good marketing.
250 of those end up with a stock of three items each.
This leaves 250 items to be shared between the other 750 people.
Simple maths mate.
Everybody has the opportunity to be successful but most people won’t be. Those that aren’t successful generally end up working for these people for a living. Market capitalism at it’s purest.
Hi insomniac<br>I’m aware that Nestle are a Swiss company and that doesn’t make any difference. They are still a big evil company and really should be boycotted into submission.
Hi GH
If you can live with funding the murder of countless third world newborns then by all means – munch away. Just remember not to chew them :biggrin:
I only did 2 shifts at Maccy Dee’s and I did it only to humour myself. In both of those shifts, somebody walked out so I guess if I stayed their long enough then I could have been CEO by now and shut the whole thing down. I guess I should have made a public announcement in the Space Monkey thread so not to confuse the good people of this forum.
Morning everybody (just checking to see if these things still exist – they do)
Nestle are a brilliant example – thanks for that Elaine. I remember a few months ago whilst I was at a boycott M&S picket a man there had a Kit Kat. He offered it to a girl who said that she’d boycotted the product because of the reasons listed above. The man said ‘oh yeah, I heard about that – that was terrible’ waited a few seconds, looked around and took another bite. A truly remarkable moment of comedy and irony.
So everybody really should forget about giving Nestle any more money which means not buying any of the following products:-
Felix <br>Friskies<br>Bakers Complete<br>Purina<br>Winalot<br>Go Cat<br>Spillers
Aero<br>After Eights<br>Blue Riband<br>Breakaway (I was offered one last night – it was the only time anybody had ever said no in that particular drug den)<br>Caramac<br>Drifter<br>Fruit Pastilles<br>Fox’s Glacier Mints<br>Haagen Daas<br>Jellitots<br>Kit Kat<br>Lion Bar<br>Matchmakers<br>Maverick<br>Milky Bar<br>Munchies<br>Nouvelle<br>Polo<br>Quality Street<br>Rolo<br>Rowntree<br>Smarties<br>Toffee Crisp<br>Tofffo<br>Tooty Fruities<br>Walnut Whip<br>Willy Wonka (no s**t
!)<br>YorkieBonne Cuisine<br>Branston Pickle<br>Buitoni<br>Crosse & Blackwell<br>Dish Of The Day<br>Eskimo<br>Findus<br>Gales Honey<br>Holgates Honey<br>Lean Cuisine<br>Maggi<br>Pan Yan<br>Pasta Choice<br>Rice & Things<br>Sarsons Vinegar<br>Scrunchies<br>Sun Pat<br>Tartex<br>Vessen Pate<br>Waistline
Ashbourne<br>Build Up<br>Buxton<br>Contrexeville<br>Nescafe<br>Nesquick<br>Perrier<br>Slender<br>Superquick<br>Um Bongo<br>Vittel (loise)
Cheerios<br>Cinnamon Toast Crunch<br>Cocoa Puffs<br>Crisp Rice<br>Energen low cal wheatflakes<br>Force<br>Golden Grahams<br>Golden Nuggets<br>Honey Nut Cheerios<br>Lucky Charms<br>Shredded Wheat (Never Eat Shredded Wheat – Being anti – Nestle also helps your navigation skills)<br>Shreddies<br>Robertsons Cornflakes<br>Sunny Jim<br>Team<br>Wheatflakes
And for heaven’s sake don’t touch L’Oreal
Hi insomniac<br>I like it when you get started because you’re a pretty clever fellow and I’m always entertained by clever tories if nothing else.
Hi hoofski<br>Good taste does no doubt deprive me of many things. Like certain chocolate bars, cars, cereals, shampoos, betting shops, fast foods, oil, tissues blah blah blah. I don’t know how I survive without them I really don’t!
Hi Steve<br>Profit is theft in that it is mathematically and physically impossible for everybody to make a profit. Generally (I hate the word), the companys that make the largest profits (Esso, McDonalds, Nestle, Ford and Kimberly-Clark are leaders in their respective fields) are the most evil, ruthless and patronizing bodies in the world who know that their ways kill yet they literally couldn’t give a flying fart. It’s to be expected in a instinctive hunter gatherer way but mankind has had long enough to evolve from greedy savages.
Banks make pathetic amounts of money and they get it through the most unsavoury means. Natwest for example made me laugh yesterday. Because I’m overdrawn, I couldn’t make a £5 donation to help the aged so the ***** (there isn’t a better word for them – I checked) charged me £35. And they will keep doing this even though it was the last £35 charge that sent me past my overdraft.
When my next paycheck comes in I’m switching accounts as soon as I can. Still, most banks are the same but the best I can do is withdraw my wages as soon as they go into my new account make sure that I never have any money there for them to invest.
I was wondering Ian Davies if you would like to mind my money? Just so long as you don’t do a Sporting Options on me, I’d be happy to let you mind my money. It should be pretty secure, I mean how many doors in Basingstoke would I have to knock on to find you? Knowing your ego, it’s probably signposted from 50 miles out anyway!
Just a couple of other products I boycot
Kimberly-Clark (a.k.a Kleenex) make more than £7.5 Billion a year yet less than 19% of their pulp comes from a recycled source and the rest comes from unsustainable forest operations.
Bacardi because their USP is their Cuban roots even though they broke all ties with Cuba after the 1959 revolution. Bacardi were in bed with the evil Batista dictatorship and fund the Cuban-American National Foundation – a right wing exile organisation based in Miami.
