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There was talk of a polytrack at Haydock circa 15 or so years ago COK – along with extending the 6 furlong chute back 2 furlongs into the fields behind in Golborne, though not sure how public this was at the time.
Martin
It would be far more like pointing – people doing it for the love of the competition and sport.
That is on the decline and there are few bookmakers on course who’ll lay a fair bet (hence our horse went from 7/2 to 4/5 in a Maiden a couple of years ago when trying to get circa £4,000 on it).
Prize money would be poor (£200-400) first prize and the courses would be forced to sell land as no money in it – they’d end up racing around fields like at Langholm and Hawick up in Scotland.
Martin
It’s all in part due to the season starting earlier in the past 5 or 6 seasons – pre-Christmas pointing is becoming more regular and is very very well supported by the owners and trainers.
Hoping to see a HC over Christmas at some point in the next few seasons and more chances for our UK horses to qualify.
Still not sure why we now have a whole series of Mares Hunter Chases – there’s one on the HC card that’s moved to Fontwell and struggling to see what there will be to run in the race.
Martin
Believe me – the cream of the French horses are staying in France. The ones you see with Nicholls and co are promising lightly raced youngsters who are trainer owned or who’s owners are offered silly amounts for.
There’s no point in sending horses to the UK for £50k or £65k if you can run routinely in your own back yard for £125k+
Martin
The plastic hurdles at Galway/Sligo etc. are too soft, they’re easy to kick out of the way and don’t encourage horses to make the right shape over the hurdle – neither do the spring back hurdles which you can skip over.
A friend of mine showed me a picture a few months ago of one of her fathers horses who’d put his leg through part of the traditional spring back hurdles and consequently tripped over and fell at them.
Martin
Easyfix hurdles aren’t French style at all – they’re plastic with brush on the top the fixed brush hurdles at Haydock are French style hurdles.
Important to differentiate between the two – Easyfix do a good job with a lot of their products but though I’m not a fan of spring back hurdles I’m not a massive fan of the Easyfix hurdles either.
Martin
Quick question Boz is it DP you work for by any chance?
Some firms will let you but it depends on the meeting Aaronizneez – if it’s a major covered meeting they should but non-SIS will be more difficult.
Martin
There’s a simple way to avoid the issues at the start – and one that the BHA bottled this year.
IIRC a number of riders were banned after the Foxhunters for failing to obey the starter. By the BHA’s own admission the same thing happened in the National itself, though with so many doing it they opted to send letters out.
The sooner the BHA learn that the only thing that jockeys know is bans and loss of earnings the better – this is the only thing that will work with regards to the start.
In 1993 the tape mechanism was different – it went vertically up and one jockey (Judy Davies on Formula One I believe) had their horses head over the tape, subsequently the tape was slow to go up, the jockeys and horses jumped off and the tape ended up wrapped around Richard Dunwoody’s neck. The subsequent failure to be able to stop the race (partly due to jockeys mistaking officials for protestors) just added to the fun and games that afternoon.
Martin
Tiqris (think he’s gone to Philip Hobbs) is my horse to watch – amazing debut at Whitfield back in March when he was brought to a standstill at the second last but still came back cruising on the bridle to take his Maiden. Received a shocking ride at Chepstow on his rules debut and should have won and was subsequently sold by connections (Tom Lacy and co).
Martin
Thanks GT – I’ve been to Newbury a couple of times but not often enough tbh (last time was in 2005 I think) so not for a good years now.
In fairness to them I’m sure they’re doing it for all the right reasons and selling off land for housing problem gives them a buffer and more money to hopefully invest in the racecourse and racing itself.
Martin
Surely they aren’t putting the hotel so you can see the winning post? Why would they do that?
Don’t like the sound of these new plans – selling off some of the land for housing and moving the car park into the middle of the track seems to be the jist of it.
Martin
Has narrowing the fences made more loose horses stay in the "race" for longer?
Yes horses were caught up when a loose horse veered across a fence but there were/have been no injuries/fatalities as a result of this – however with narrowing the fences horses can run round them (and also gather more speed as they can go a furlong or so without jumping any fences which is arguably more dangerous than fences being in the way, they slow them down).
Thanks for the reply Itsawar – agree with you on a lot of it but given the points made in response to my first question we as racing supporters would be relying on punters who are no longer interested in racing (hence bookies have stopped bothering with racing) or we’d be relying on gambling getting much bigger than it is at the moment (think sports betting, bingo, gaming rather than betting on racing) and the market share of racing continuing to shrink.
The free to air racing will raise more costs and the info we have in UK racing isn’t free either – important things like accurate going, accurate distances etc. unless of course a punter intends to play the racing like a lottery and just pick a random number and back it
Martin
I admire everyone’s optimism regarding a Tote monopoly and as always there are some interesting thoughts on the matter but I’ve a few questions for those proposing the Tote Monopoly?
a) Presumably the Tote monopoly will come when the bookies leave racing as there’s no custom there, how does racing get people to bet on a product bet to a ridiculous percentage (AKA Tote takeout) when they can bet on a football match bet to 101.5%?
b) Shouldn’t racing focus on getting the product in order ie. being able to enforce lifetime bans on anyone found guilty of corruption rather than letting them back into the sport 6 months later?
c) Why would Joe Public bet on a sport that relies on deceptive tactics, exploitation of the rules and has an active press that won’t say a word about this?
d) Unless any Tote monopoly is set up to go "live" as soon as the bookmakers leave racing there will be a period when there is virtually no prize money (prize money coming from the levy which is largely bookmaker funded or from the image rights which are paid to racecourses from the levy). How does racing survive during this period assuming that the owners/trainers are correct in telling us that they are all really struggling in the current climate of £1,600+ prize money?
Thanks
Martin
Good stuff there BH – even with the 1998 stats it would appear that the race is much safer on soft/heavy ground when compared to a sound surface.
Martin
Therefore something in the last twenty years has caused this change. It could be the type of horse, breeding, training methods, smaller fences, faster going.
I just think that if the jumps are lowered again then the field will go faster & there will be more fatalities. The RSPCA in it’s effort to "do good" may well have created a race with conditions that lead to an increase in injury.
Something happened to the course in the late 1980’s that could have had a bearing on the higher fatality rates in recent years, and yes you hit it on the head in the second part of the post, they made the fences smaller.
Sadly the RSPCA man is unlikely to suggest anything that will make the race safer ie. making the fences stiffer and adding more races over the fences so that horses are used to them.
Could other factors totally unrelated to Aintree be to blame for the current higher fatality rates also?
a) A more competitive race due to the compressed handicap – this year all horses were in the handicap, as recently as 2001 (a year when despite only two finishing without mishap there were no fatalities and no serious injuries to horses) 15 horses were racing from outside the handicap.
b) The easier fences at courses like Haydock (which stages a number of recognised Grand National trials) are allowing horses to jump at greater speed through fences in a way that would be dangerous around Aintree.
Martin
