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It’s one of the few suggestions that have been made over the last couple of years, that actually make sense.
Don’t know if it’s workable on a course like Aintree, but surely worth a try.
I can’t see that working given that the loose horses will be trying their best to follow the others and by the second circuit the field is so strung out the outriders might get in the way of other runners. It always amazes me how horses, when loose on tracks know how to get back to the stables, even if they’ve never been there before. Any loose horse will be in a blind panic during the race and maybe Aintree is such a large track they may not know where they are. Given that so many so called ‘experts’ have given views on this for the RSPCA, have horse phsychologists been consulted; they’re such complicated creatures.
Think I’ve posted something similar on this or another site previously. If you look at the stats (even allowing for some historical info not having been collated) the number of deaths has significantly increased in the last twenty years & in the last ten more so. There were blips in the 1950s, but a lot of years, when the fields were large & fences stiffer, there were races with no (recorded) fatalities.
Therefore something in the last twenty years has caused this change. It could be the type of horse, breeding, training methods, smaller fences, faster going.
I just think that if the jumps are lowered again then the field will go faster & there will be more fatalities. The RSPCA in it’s effort to "do good" may well have created a race with conditions that lead to an increase in injury.This is from one of the National threads from earlier this year;-
I’ve trawled through the RP database and compiled the stats correlating going, speed of the race, numbers of finishers and fatalities. I thought I was getting somewhere as I remembered 94 and 01 being deceptively safe despite the small number of finishers and bottomless ground. 1998 came along and made a pigs ear of anything conclusive but it would be interesting to see if anybody has further data that runs along similar themes.
0 Deaths
1988 Good to Soft 9m 53.5s (9/40)
1992 Good to Soft 9m 06.4s (22/40)
1994 Heavy 10m 18.8s (6/36)
1995 Good 9m 04.1s (15/35)
2000 Good 9m 09.7s (17/40)
2001 Heavy 11m 00.1s (4/40)
2004 Good 9m 20.3s (11/39)
2005 Good to Soft 9m 20.8s (21/40)
2010 Good 9m 04.6s (14/40)1 Death
1991 Good to Soft 9m 29.9s (17/40)
1996 Good 9m 00.8s (17/27)
1999 Good 9m 14.1s (18/32)
2003 Good 9m 21.7s (14/40)
2006 Good to Soft 9m 41.0s (9/40)
2007 Good 9m 13.6s (12/40)
2008 Good 9m 16.6s (15/40)
2009 Good to soft 9m 32.9s (17/40)2 Deaths
1989 Heavy 10m 06.9s (14/40)
1990 Firm 8m 47.8s (20/38)
1997 Good 9m 05.9s (17/36)
2002 Good 9m 08.6s (11/40)
2011 Good 9m 01.2s (19/40)
2012 Good 9m 05.1s (15/40)3 Deaths
1998 Soft 10m 51.5s (6/37)
I also made a list of non fatalities who’s careers may or may not have been ended by the race. I’ve chosen horses aged ten or under as it was very feasible looking at the older horses to assume that they had simply retired. Horses like Deep Bramble, Star Traveller and Youlneverwalkalone however were certainly stopped in their prime because of the race.
Horses aged 10 or younger for whom the Grand National was the last race.
1988 Rhyme ‘N’ Reason, Smith’s Man
1990 Charter Hardware
1991 Fraze*
1995 Dubacilla*
1996 Deep Bramble
1998 Pond House
1999 Blue Charm, St Mellion Fairway, Coome Hill, Tamarindo
2000 Star Traveller, Stormy Passage
2002 Lyreen Wonder
2003 Youlneverwalkalone
2004 Southern Star, Joss Naylor
2007 Liberthine*, Longshanks
2009 Butler’s Cabin, Fleet Street, Reveillez
2011 Big Fella Thanks, Surface To Air*, Silver By Nature*, Bluesea Cracker**Fraze was Czech trained, Dubacilla, Liberthine and Bluesea Cracker were all mares, Surface To Air was offered at auction last spring and Silver By Nature was reportedly in good form over the summer.
Coome Hill died after an operation, but I don’t think it was due to an injury in the race. Longshanks died just before he was due to be retired and it was definately not due to the race. Dear Dubacilla only died recently, having had a long retirement at her owners farm. Star Traveller is the one that always concerns me, being my favourite horse at the time.
Therefore something in the last twenty years has caused this change. It could be the type of horse, breeding, training methods, smaller fences, faster going.
I just think that if the jumps are lowered again then the field will go faster & there will be more fatalities. The RSPCA in it’s effort to "do good" may well have created a race with conditions that lead to an increase in injury.
Something happened to the course in the late 1980’s that could have had a bearing on the higher fatality rates in recent years, and yes you hit it on the head in the second part of the post, they made the fences smaller.
Sadly the RSPCA man is unlikely to suggest anything that will make the race safer ie. making the fences stiffer and adding more races over the fences so that horses are used to them.
Could other factors totally unrelated to Aintree be to blame for the current higher fatality rates also?
a) A more competitive race due to the compressed handicap – this year all horses were in the handicap, as recently as 2001 (a year when despite only two finishing without mishap there were no fatalities and no serious injuries to horses) 15 horses were racing from outside the handicap.
b) The easier fences at courses like Haydock (which stages a number of recognised Grand National trials) are allowing horses to jump at greater speed through fences in a way that would be dangerous around Aintree.
Martin
Good stuff there BH – even with the 1998 stats it would appear that the race is much safer on soft/heavy ground when compared to a sound surface.
Martin
This is from one of the National threads from earlier this year;-
I’ve trawled through the RP database and compiled the stats correlating going, speed of the race, numbers of finishers and fatalities. I thought I was getting somewhere as I remembered 94 and 01 being deceptively safe despite the small number of finishers and bottomless ground. 1998 came along and made a pigs ear of anything conclusive but it would be interesting to see if anybody has further data that runs along similar themes.
0 Deaths
1988 Good to Soft 9m 53.5s (9/40)
1992 Good to Soft 9m 06.4s (22/40)
1994 Heavy 10m 18.8s (6/36)
1995 Good 9m 04.1s (15/35)
2000 Good 9m 09.7s (17/40)
2001 Heavy 11m 00.1s (4/40)
2004 Good 9m 20.3s (11/39)
2005 Good to Soft 9m 20.8s (21/40)
2010 Good 9m 04.6s (14/40)1 Death
1991 Good to Soft 9m 29.9s (17/40)
1996 Good 9m 00.8s (17/27)
1999 Good 9m 14.1s (18/32)
2003 Good 9m 21.7s (14/40)
2006 Good to Soft 9m 41.0s (9/40)
2007 Good 9m 13.6s (12/40)
2008 Good 9m 16.6s (15/40)
2009 Good to soft 9m 32.9s (17/40)2 Deaths
1989 Heavy 10m 06.9s (14/40)
1990 Firm 8m 47.8s (20/38)
1997 Good 9m 05.9s (17/36)
2002 Good 9m 08.6s (11/40)
2011 Good 9m 01.2s (19/40)
2012 Good 9m 05.1s (15/40)3 Deaths
1998 Soft 10m 51.5s (6/37)
I also made a list of non fatalities who’s careers may or may not have been ended by the race. I’ve chosen horses aged ten or under as it was very feasible looking at the older horses to assume that they had simply retired. Horses like Deep Bramble, Star Traveller and Youlneverwalkalone however were certainly stopped in their prime because of the race.
Horses aged 10 or younger for whom the Grand National was the last race.
1988 Rhyme ‘N’ Reason, Smith’s Man
1990 Charter Hardware
1991 Fraze*
1995 Dubacilla*
1996 Deep Bramble
1998 Pond House
1999 Blue Charm, St Mellion Fairway, Coome Hill, Tamarindo
2000 Star Traveller, Stormy Passage
2002 Lyreen Wonder
2003 Youlneverwalkalone
2004 Southern Star, Joss Naylor
2007 Liberthine*, Longshanks
2009 Butler’s Cabin, Fleet Street, Reveillez
2011 Big Fella Thanks, Surface To Air*, Silver By Nature*, Bluesea Cracker**Fraze was Czech trained, Dubacilla, Liberthine and Bluesea Cracker were all mares, Surface To Air was offered at auction last spring and Silver By Nature was reportedly in good form over the summer.
You also forgot the 1993 running were the was no causualities. I know that it was void but most still ran like it was real.
Been said before and probably said again, speed kills so lowering of fences would only quicken them up.
Also the RSPCA are wrong, while nearly half the field have gone within the first six fences (1990-2011?, their figures ) its the fourth fence which has caused the greatest difficulties, and not just in the Grand National itself.
If Gavin Grant wants to influence the field size of the National on safety grounds, then my advice to him would be to obtain a bookmakers’ license before expecting The BHA to take him seriously.
All sorts of field sizes have been reduced on ‘safety grounds’ in recent years. On flat all-weather tracks, more than fourteen runners suddenly became ‘unsafe’ several years ago (save for Saturday jamborees at Kempton) on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.
Meanwhile, an event that belongs in The Colosseum, where the body bags and bad PR pile up every year remains safe for forty runners. Safe for those extra ten or so rags that the kindly bookmakers mark up with around a 200% margin, for the unwary that enter their clip joints, to run in.
I was more concerned with the political implications than a recycling of ideas to make the race ‘safer’, but inevitably, the debate has drifted that way.
So, here’s my tuppenceworth – the public will not put up with unfairness and once the implication of drop fences is properly explained to them, I think they will object.
More importantly, a key factor for me in injuries and in the concealment of ‘unfairness’ are the horrible wooden stakes at the core of each fence. They should be dispensed with before anything else imo.
I’m pretty sure they caused Synchronised’s fatal injury and that of quite a few other loose horses.
The public rarely, if ever, get to see them. They watch feathery loose spruce being brushed off by jumping horses. If you stripped the fences down and showed them, I think there’d be uproar.
Replacing those stakes with rubber or something non-lethal would not be hard to do and if Aintree/Racing cannot come up with a substitute for them then the National does not deserve to survive.
Joe
Chief Exec Gavin Grant puts down his marker early
Gavin Grant
, The big I am,this guys built himself up like Audley Harrison,both have plenty Bark,neither have any Bite.
Anyone who seriously thinks this guy can put the wind up Racing and in particular The Grand National are deluding themselves almost as much as the man himself,I love his confidence and the "I dont pull any punches" quote,he’s just the sort of person we want to take Horseracing on…….head on as he’ll not only expose himself as ‘The guy who bit off more than he could chew’ but any credibility the RSPCA had will be left like the sod of turf thats trampled all over by Horseracings loyal supporters when we close ranks! ‘Joe’ Publics loyalty has a strong bond with The Grand National and the turnstiles dont lie.I look forward to Mr Grants second marker,his first has sunk without trace!
I don’t know how you manage to enjoy the National every year Steeplechasing.
When you worked at Aintree did you bring any of these matters up with the management and what was their response?I don’t know how you manage to enjoy the National every year Steeplechasing.
When you worked at Aintree did you bring any of these matters up with the management and what was their response?It would be unfair and discourteous of me to disclose chapter and verse. Suffice to say I decided to leave the job.
Joe
I remember going to another meeting there & the fences were all stripped down. They are made of what looks like telegraph poles on end & presumably these are packed with gorse & spruce. I always thought that the fences were living things, real hedges that were dressed with spruce for the meeting. I must say I was surprised; but the poles are quite low, so a horse would really have to plough through to come into contact with them.
I was more concerned with the political implications than a recycling of ideas to make the race ‘safer’, but inevitably, the debate has drifted that way.
So, here’s my tuppenceworth – the public will not put up with unfairness and once the implication of drop fences is properly explained to them, I think they will object.
More importantly, a key factor for me in injuries and in the concealment of ‘unfairness’ are the horrible wooden stakes at the core of each fence. They should be dispensed with before anything else imo.
I’m pretty sure they caused Synchronised’s fatal injury and that of quite a few other loose horses.
The public rarely, if ever, get to see them. They watch feathery loose spruce being brushed off by jumping horses. If you stripped the fences down and showed them, I think there’d be uproar.
Replacing those stakes with rubber or something non-lethal would not be hard to do and if Aintree/Racing cannot come up with a substitute for them then the National does not deserve to survive.
Joe
You are a Master Scaremongerer Joe! You tried to paint a picture of the Power of the RSPCA after this years National and guess what ?Its Old news! You ask ‘Joe Public’ how many horses died in this years Great race and 99.9% wont have a clue! Ask them to name just one and again 99.9% wont know,not even the fact that one of them was this years Gold cup winner and now you think "there will be uproar" if you explained to the Public how a fence is built!
Geezus if Joe Public can tolerate a soldier dying on a daily basis in Afghanistan they can sure as hell tolerate 3 horses dying in a Horserace! You and Gavin Grant want a REALity check!
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