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..er Jollyp just seen the pictures of your horse

Black Caviar

exiting her flight at Heathrow,she was wearing a tight black Lycra number and looked sexy as hell.She’s bigger than I thought she would be but looked a picture…

If this article is anywhere near true then she is a pretty large lady, no doubt with a backside to match!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/24/bated-breath-roger-charlton-temple-stakes

from the article itself…

Where is the British sprinter who can give Black Caviar a hard time at Royal Ascot next month? Bated Breath, a contender for the vacancy, makes his return to action in the Temple Stakes at Haydock on Saturday but his trainer, Roger Charlton, is not exactly looking forward to taking on the Australian supermare in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes.

"It would be [exciting] for the general public," he says, deadpan. "It wouldn’t be very exciting for me. I’ve only seen her on television. What’s impressive is the sheer size of her. She’s 475kg.

"Bated Breath is a big horse and he’s less than 400kg. She appears to move very well and win easily and, even if the opposition is not always very strong, the time is always good."

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I think BB is the real deal….far less convinced by Grand Crus last year however so I do think the champ could end up with several stronger opponents this year. Alot depends on the development and plans of Oscar Whiskey, Oscars well, Thousand Stars and So Young.

All of which could be really dangerous. My problem with Hendersons horse is whether he was idling or was being caught by thousand stars at Aintree last year???

I like Thousand Stars a lot and actually think he would represent more of a danger to Big Bucks than Oscar Whiskey. Until I see him run over 3M at Cheltenham I will remain unconvinced that is what Oscar Whiskey either wants or needs.

The trouble I am having with watching that exact Aintree race is that Katie really gets stuck into Thousand Stars with the whip. Oscar definitly travels better and I wonder what effect the whip rules will have.

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For obvious reasons I would imagine AP will be very keen for a Binocular V Hurricane Fly showdown asap

But they had a showdown at the end of last season and Hurricane Fly laughed at him, and every other horse in the race. Hurricane Fly – IMO – travels too well, stays to well and has a far too potent a turn of foot for any of his current chapion hurdle rivals.

I do agree though that if even a couple of decent horses turn up to race him, we may get a nice price about Hurricane Fly

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Midday has proved comfortably better that Snow Fairy when they have met so the theory goes Midday should be somewhere close to SYT.

I quite agree Kris Diesis. I know form never works out exactly as you like to think it will, but I think Midday always seems to handle Snow Fairy fairly comfortbaly. Yet for all the collateral form Midday is over 9.2 on Betfair. This race may well still cut up so surely that price is too big to ignore.

Does anyone have a theory on Midday and her getting to the front too soon? I think she has fabulous acceleration for a middle distance horse but she clearly idles/tires/whatever when left out in front alone.

Do you think Queally mis-times his runs or do you just think she is often travelling so well that she tanks herself there? I’m hoping that if Tom can hang on to her long enough that she may well have too much of a burst of speed for the rest of them.

…I said I’m hoping

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Ha ha a decent horse yes you are right that much is definitely obvious. Actually he’s a shitload better than decent my friend.

I don’t think he is a "shitload" better than decent. Sorry. I think Frankel is, I thought Sea The Stars was. I dont think SYT is.

…you’re kidding yourself what myopic anti-ballydoyle drugs are you on mate?

I have posted maybe a handful of times on this site. I have no idea where you get the idea I am anti-ballydoyle. Just because I dont share your opinion of a horse doesn’t mean I think Aiden is the Anti-Christ

The horse came from basically last on the turn chasing a horse that burned it’s last 800 and was carrying a lot less weight.

Whether the WFA scale and/or filly allowance are correct and just is a different discussion, but they are there for a reason. I dont think SYT ran badly at all, I thought it was an admirable run, a run of a good G1 performer.

Don’t let your coolmore hate influence your admiration and love for a great galloper like SYT.

I DONT HATE Coolmore How can I prove this to you?

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… but on yesterday’s evidence Danedream is the better horse though SYT is second best (discounting the ones who ran shockers like Workforce, Nakayama, though I’d give SYT the edge over them).

I’ll see your second best and raise you 3rd best I actually think Snow Fairy came out 2nd best. I have re-watched it a few times and SYT pretty much tracked Snow Fairy every step of the way and had every chance to go past her if good enough. They had very similar runs (IMO) the entire way round.

SYT did seem to lose a length or two in the false straight but I really do think – given the fillies allowance – Snow Fairy is about his equal.

What I do agree on is, because no one backed her, the winner isn’t getting any credit for running away from a decent field.

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My opinion for the Aussie was he was just too far back, pulled lengths off the majority of the field and held pace with the winner (who one person in this thread has already labelled the best middle distance horse in the world now ) from the top of the straight. In my opinion it was a very poor ride….

I think So You Think is obviously a decent horse but I thought the run showed that he is probably about as good as Snow Fairy, who herself didn’t have the best of draws. As for the winner, maybe she hasnt done enough to be the best middle distnace horse in Europe, but she is definitly progresing pretty rapidly and she routed them. Didnt Aiden have a filly a few years ago who took a long time to actually win a group race and then went on to be pretty much unbeatable?

Regarding one of O’Briens other runners; Treasure Beach. I know you always take a risk with one of theirs that no matter how good the horse may be, they will be sacrificed as a pacemaker but come on. It may be my mind playing tricks but the Ballydoyle pace-makers now seem to be completely ignored by other stables as they set off at what looks to be 6F pace. Once upon a time, other jockeys couldnt afford to let them go but everyone has grown wise. They are a complete waste of time!

I also have a problem with Flash Dance always letting Goldikova have a run up her inside but thats another matter

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I’ve backed Hurricane Fly for this, and I was about as confident as you could be considering the open nature of the race…

…until this morning

I’ve just been catching up on his previous runs where I can find videos on Youtube. Someone, please, please, please, re-convince me that he finds enough off the bridle when it comes to the business end.

I belive Solwhit is a very good horse so have no worries about the form as such, but I am really beginning to worry that I’m going to go through some kind of Harchibald V Hardy moment come Tuesday afternoon.

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Hi

I dont often post here but in reply to you Fist, do you really think he is a complete dog?

I admit he has some, ahem, quirks and needs to be kidded along a bit, but I have just been back and looked at some of his races and Im not sure he is totally dog-like. It appears to me he has trouble keeping tabs just at the point the pace increases in races (at Cheltenham on Sat he seemed to lose lengths at about the same spot he did in the World Hurdle last year). I have thought a similar thing about Kauto since last seasons Gold Cup. I think a lot of his fast finishes are due to the fact that Tidal Bay seems to have stamina in abundance, but lacks a real turn of foot to keep with the pace when it matters. He can slowly keep acelerating or maintaining his pace when horses like Neptune are fading due to the injection of pace they put into the race earlier.

If anyone does sectionals I’d be really interested to know Tidals sectionals compared to other runners in that race…not that I’d know what to do with that information

I’ve backed him for the Gold Cup mainly because I think there are question marks about all of them this year (IMO) and like you say if he is within 10-15 lengths at the bottom of the hill he has a real shot!

Matt

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Yes, Long Run has time on his side (in theory), but potential needs to be realized at some point. In reality he still really hasnt done an awful lot in the UK yet – except occasionally look good – and now he has to face horses that are in a different league to his previous opponents.

For all his supposed talent (which may or may not be just hype) and potential, given the choice , I’d much rather have any of my cash on his mate Burton Port. He isnt flashy, he often got overlooked or ignored, probably wont ever win a Gold Cup or King George, but who you know will run himself into the ground trying to win, probably while passing Long Run up the home straight.

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I was there on the day and I think it was one of the most incerdible performances I have seen regardless of any other factors. Would Harbinger ever have repeated that sort of performance again? Who knows…but on the day I seriously dont know what horse would have beaten him.

I think it is easy (I’m not saying you are) to look for reasons to crab him, the race, and the other horses performaces, when it just might be that he is, or was ont he day, that good.

In my opinion (with the exception of Workforce) the other horses ran to their ratings give or take. As for the pace of the race, it wasnt like Harbinger was sitting 20 lengths of the pace in a big field race being ran suicidal pace. He was pretty much on the heels of Cape Blanco and Workforce all the way as far as I could tell. Cape Blanco’s best distance may be a matter of opinion but there is no doubt he is pretty smart. The Hardwicke Stakes is throwing up Group winners left, right and centre and is rapidly looking very smart form on it’s own.

He will probably never be remembered the way Sea the Stars will be, but that replay will probably be with us every year on King Gerorge Day for a long, long, time!

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