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Even if Kauto Star won eight KG’s, he still would be in Arkle’s shadow.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
All the Arkle-Kauto etc etc debate is just pure speculation imo.
Who can prove Arkle was better? The people that actually saw him run can remember how great he was….but maybe just maybe their recollections of him just snowball every year ,so every year that passes… in their minds Arkles performances get better and better.
They know they can try and put people below the age of …say 40…in their place by trotting out….."but arkle wouldve done this and that" etc.
Maybe just maybe…the Arkle legend is well above Arkle the flesh and blood?
Yes he had some monumental performances in handicaps etc…and won 3 gold cups….but how many of the horses he beat were actually top top class outside Mill House?
How many opponents actually took him on in his gold cups?For all we know Kauto might have won 5 gold cups in them days..we just dont know….and the crazy rating arkle had then was just a joke.
I never actually saw Arkle in the flesh so i cant say for sure….but why cant younger racing fans think Kauto etc is the best without being shot down over akle this and arkle that?
rant over
Think I must be alone here.. admittedly I didn’t see much of the race clearly as I was by the paddock, but Kauto never looked to be travelling like he can and at the point he fell I was confident he wasn’t going to be a threat.
They are now allowed to remount and ride back as long as the vet has checked the horse over. I’m hoping Ruby had that done, because otherwise I’m disappointed there doesn’t seem to have been any reaction from the stewards.
I believe up until he made his blunder he was tanking along in that brilliant arrogant manner of his.The jolting blunder did his confidence in….when he fell id agree he was a beaten horse though.
Was it raining that much during the race that the jockey gained an extra 3lbs? ? ?
Heavy rain in Cheltenham.
Couldnt see that being responsible for 3lbs.
Unless he was wearing a wooly jumper and fell in a very big puddle!
I think BuckieJagsMan has given us preferential editing in favour of Buckie Thistle, whos colours are superb. I’m going to adopt them as my second team. This referee wouldn’t be out of place in the SPL, as Wick were denied an absolute stonewaller at the start of the second half, then given a free kick and got a player booked when they took a tumble, when it was a dive ! – now we know where Dallas, Dougal & Co learned their trade -. That was a great watch all the same, and what a goal !!!!
Do i detect a hint of paranoia there in youre tone?
I dont necessarily think that having experience of the national fences is a good thing before you go there.In fact dont many trainers say even schooling horses over the aintree type fences some build at home is a waste of time?
On Ruby’s recommendation, Nicholls got rid of his Aintree fence this season.
Id say if you had an aintree fence at home and schooled over it then it could make a horse complacent.
Schooling pace and full on racing pace is 2 different things….for instance 2 examples i found of this are Punchestowns and Captain Cee Bee last week.
They must have shown plenty schooling at home or hacking round in low grade races….but put them into a "real" race and their jumping wasnt there.
If i was training one for aintree i wouldnt want it to see a fence until the day.
Good idea IMO – the horse is built to carry weight, his best performance this season has been when giving weight away to inferior horses, arguably 2 of his top 3 performances have been in this situation.
Anyone know if the Becher Chase has an upper rating limit or not? Might be a good start for him and get some valuable experience in over the big fences.
I personally think if they were serious about a national….this shouldve been the year.
I dont necessarily think that having experience of the national fences is a good thing before you go there.In fact dont many trainers say even schooling horses over the aintree type fences some build at home is a waste of time?Id maybe have a run or 2 over timber….maybe take in the AON then go to aintree that way.
Thing is though…if Kauto hadnt made the first blunder….i think hed have cantered over imperial commander.
I can’t help but agree, Before the blunder, I thought he had got himself into that rythem where he’s just unstoppable, absolutely soaring over fences. However, we now will never know.
And whoever said Kauto Star has just been beating poor horses like Best Mate did, well, personally I consider Exotic Dancer, Denman and Neptune Collonges better than Sir Rembrandt, Commanche Court, Harbour Pilot etc.
I am as big a Best Mate fan as you could get,but there is no comparison in the opposition of Matey and Kauto.I mean Kauto won 4 king georges where maybe the opposition wasnt the greatest outside ED(who i think was a better horse around cheltenham)…but aside from that hes won 2 tingle creeks hammering the likes of VPU etc,could also arguably have won a QMCC too…and has won 2 Gold Cups beating the likes of Denman,ED,Neptune collonges etc in the process.
Matey i feel was fortunate to be around in the era he was.
I must add though…i beleive on good ground round cheltenham that Matey and Kauto could have been an epic duel.
but any ideas on HOW he got the extra 3lb?? I’ve never heard of this before. I’ve heard of being less weight , ie- going to toilet or sweating off water or even loosing a weight from saddle, but never carrying MORE. How could it have happened?? ha. Strange!!
Maybe our denis had one too many kebabs when out the night before.
In scotland we call it fat b.ast.arditis
Seriously it is bad though…i dont think it made much difference but what if arcalis had went down by say….a head etc.
I tend to agree with soba and sovies friend because the fall he took looked awful. But, then again, if Ruby hadn’t’ve caught him so quickly he would probably have cantered back by himself possibly taking in a couple of fences as well. It was good that everyone could see quickly that he was ok. As for the race itself, I suppose Ruby is the only one who could tell us how good he was or wasn’t going, and I’m sure I heard someone in the commentary box comment to someone else that he was not travelling well. Cheltenham isn’t really his course, even though he has had such success there. He is imperious at Kempton, but seems vulnerable at Cheltenham.Denman was superb; his jumping was a joy to behold, and it was interesting how his lass said he had blossomed in the last week or so just as he did last year. But I don’t want this to go down in history as the race that Kauto Star lost..it’s the race that Imperial Commander won.
I agree about the imperial commander bit.
Thing is though…if Kauto hadnt made the first blunder….i think hed have cantered over imperial commander.
I know this sounds a bit corny….but does anyone else think that the rain and dreary conditions and the way they came on so fast was a major factor in his loss of confidence after the mistake?
i.e "feck running round here in the pouring rain after making a blunder like that….id rather be in the stables"
Glad hes ok though,KG number 5 is a cert.
Hello,
I backed ARCALIS yesterday, each way thankfully.
This may have been discussed elsewhere on the forum, so forgive me if I have duplicated the subject.. I learnt after the race O’Regan came back 3lb OVERWEIGHT. As he was only beaten 3 lengths, you must understand how frustrated I am.
How the hell can this happen??????
I had Arcalis ew as well….although im not sure hed have beaten the winner even without the extra 3lb.
Thanks to o"regan though well never know.
If hed have been a bit nearer the pace though throughout the race..another story.
Sad to see Well Chief, a favourite of mine and who beat an injured MM earlier this season, never on terms.
Retirement beckons for WC I hope as age and fragile legs have caught up with him
Agreed, especially after they chose him as one of their unsung heroes of Cheltenham Past today on Channel4. When you look back at him mixing it with Moscow Flyer and see a shadow of that horse today, it was sad to see.
He put up the greatest weight-carrying performance I’ve ever witnessed when landing the Victor Chandler chase in 2005 and I have fond memories of his beating Azertyuiop in the Celebration Chase after his titanic effort against Moscow Flyer.
His latest victory in December was a moment to cherish – his way of reminding us just how good he was.
I would like to see him have one last hurrah at Sandown. I don’t want to see him go out with a whimper like today. If David Pipe can get him there fit and well, I say they’ve got nothing to lose.
Thats one of my most dissappointing in racing….Well Chief not winning a champion chase.
Him beating Kicking King in the arkle was one of my best memories of him in his youth.
Gonna be a great race and although Big Bucks did me a huge favour last year Im a big fan of Tidal Bay. Granted he has let his supporters down over the last 18 months albeit needing a wind operation and also not looking too keen over the bigger obstacles. Whenever the horse is 100% sound ( he did look in good nick last time) he invariably comes out on top. If the trainer gets him to Cheltenham in the same form and the ground is half decent, if they dont get him off the bridle I feel he will have too much speed for his rivals late on. He’s definitely a top class horse of that there is NO doubt. The favourite is special so we should be in for a treat.
Im with you…I can see Tidal Bay unleashed up the hill to try and collar Big Bucks.
Anyone who thinks NickyHenderson did anything wrong is a being silly or as the say in France a fookin idiot
Sharup Carv and write about moving hurdles it’s more up your street…….geez your a moaning bastid at times 
Exactly well said
Im also in the Henderson camp over this.Binocular simply proved what a select few already knew…..he is the best hurdler in the British isles.(him against a fully fit hurricane fly may be quite a sight!)
And Binocular makes history – the first non-runner to win a championship race.
I hope JP’s winnings justified Henderson’s handling of the situation.
What about kicking king in 05?
would you rather henderson kept the problem quiet though…..and the horse ran like a drain?
He was in a lose/lose situation.
If you were in charge of the horse and he had a problem….only to recover and be fit enough to run….what would you do?