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While I agree with the general definitions of the term ‘forward’ already posted, I think there is an added element which is to suggest that the horse in question is more mature/physically developed/ready for work than the average horse of that particular age or at that particular stage of development, i.e. there is an implicit comparison being made. (In the same way as ‘backward’ holds a suggestion that the horse is not as well-grown/mature/mentally ready as it ‘should’ be at a particular stage, based on knowledge of the average horse’s development.
Will you lot get back to the debate at hand… I’m getting fed up of this delineation from the topics at hand…
Zip
While I agree with the general definitions of the term ‘forward’ already posted, I think there is an added element which is to suggest that the horse in question is more mature/physically developed/ready for work than the average horse of that particular age or at that particular stage of development, i.e. there is an implicit comparison being made. (In the same way as ‘backward’ holds a suggestion that the horse is not as well-grown/mature/mentally ready as it ‘should’ be at a particular stage, based on knowledge of the average horse’s development.
Almost exactly as I see the words meaning Cruella. With two year olds I see “forward” as more musculed up than normal and / or mentally ready for racing. Where as “backward” I see as less physically developed and / or mentally not ready for racing. Though these backward sorts can often be big types who have not filled their frame yet.
But I suppose forward means different things to different people. Am I right that forward seems to mean different things in different age groups. Yearlings, 2 year old, 3 or 4yo.
Mark
Value Is EverythingFor those who want to learn about paddock watching. I am no expert but do know more now than I used to. Thanks to Alan Potts reccomendation of an American video called The Body Language Of The Race Horse. By Bonnie Laedbetter.
I watch it at least once a year.
It is a wonder Timeform or the Racing Post do not produce a video / dvd about this subject.
Mark
Value Is EverythingFor those who want to learn about paddock watching. I am no expert but do know more now than I used to. Thanks to Alan Potts reccomendation of an American video called The Body Language Of The Race Horse. By Bonnie Laedbetter.
I watch it at least once a year.
It is a wonder Timeform or the Racing Post do not produce a video / dvd about this subject.
Mark
Good point.
With regards to people not feeling that they can post without people jumping down their throats, therre is a rule of thumb. If you put forward your opinion as such and invite comment/debate, then you will tend to get positive comments. If you present your opinion as fact and suggest that anyone who disagrees with it is wrong, then you will tend to stir up a degree of hostility. It’s never too late to build bridges though.
The Body Language Of The Race Horse is I believe still available on DVD for around $50 or video.
I got mine many years ago from Daily Racing Form.
You could try American Turf Monthly.Anyone know of any British books / video / DVD’s about paddock watching?
Come on Ken Pitteson make one!!!!!!!!!!! (hope I have got your name right)
Mark
Value Is EverythingOf course backward horses can still win or run well. But if you have identified one; even if it has won, you can be fairly sure it will improve greatly next time out / given time.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI think thats a good point Rory, however what sometimes happens is people make a witty or sarcastic remark which gets misinterpreted by someone else, i.e someone gets the wrong end of the stick and takes offence. We all come from different backgrounds and have different experiences, all we can try to do is not let the debates turn too negative and into some form of degenerate slagging matches.
As a great admirer of the wit and wisdom of Grasshopper, I can’t disagree with that.
I think thats a good point Rory, however what sometimes happens is people make a witty or sarcastic remark which gets misinterpreted by someone else, i.e someone gets the wrong end of the stick and takes offence. We all come from different backgrounds and have different experiences, all we can try to do is not let the debates turn too negative and into some form of degenerate slagging matches.
I think that may have happened once between us Marble. Beginning with a misunderstanding where you thought I was criticising betting shop punters. Though I would not call it a slagging match. Just difference of opinion.
I do think we all should have thick skins. I have had "run-ins" with several people on here, including your good self. But there is no reason why we can not be civil during our discussion and forget about it afterwards.
Mark
Value Is EverythingCome on Ken Pitteson make one!!!!!!!!!!! (hope I have got your name right)
That is indeed the fella. I think Ken comes across more convincingly in the spoken medium than the written one, so yes, a DVD or video of him explaining conformation with living, breathing equine examples would be a useful edition (and addition!)
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Physically, there is a difference between ‘forward’ and ‘grossly heavy topped’.
She is a smashing looking filly, but too much top and not enough bone – she will not stick much racing and I wouldn’t have her for £500.
Personally, I use forward in terms of straightness(as in not green), attitude and fitness.I was interested by how that photos shows this filly to be slanting "forward", and hence my question in the first place.
Thoughts?
I was interested by how that photos shows this filly to be slanting "forward", and hence my question in the first place.
Thoughts?
That’s the way they grow MD.
Horses grow in stages, the back end first and then the front end and so on. So when that photograph was taken the filly was still growing, by now she’s likely to be more level.
Physically, there is a difference between ‘forward’ and ‘grossly heavy topped’.
She is a smashing looking filly, but too much top and not enough bone – she will not stick much racing and I wouldn’t have her for £500.
Personally, I use forward in terms of straightness(as in not green), attitude and fitness.Looking at her again I suppose she does have a fair bit upstairs but when you say not enough bone do you mean her legs are too thin or what? The reason Iam asking is I saw a picture
of Zarkava as a yearling and she had the skinniest legs I ever saw….Can’t say she ever looked to be particualry strong in that department in any other pic I saw…….I’ve seen a lot worse fetch more than 500 guineas at the sales than this filly. I find it easy enough to spot the good ones at the sales (The ones who fetch big mmoney) but sometimes difficult at times from a pic as they can look terribly different in one shot to another.Not arguing with your analyisis just asking CH as like everyone always willing to learn
Bone is ,techinically, the measurement around the leg a couple of inches below the knee.
Horses with more bone can carry more topline easily, cope with firm ground (although it is usually the no boners that want it!), and stick more racing.
If this filly looks like this as a yearling, imagine her in a year or so – would be like putting a keg of beer onto 4 matchsticks.
Can’t say i’ve ever noted Zarkava’s looks, but I am not against ‘no bone’ as such, I just like it to be relative.
I’ve got 2 yearlings out in the field, 1 NH and 1 flat bred. They would be a perfect example of this as the NH gelding is a tank on tree trunks, and the flat filly is a whippet on matchsticks (both very tall). I’ll see if I have any photos laterz.
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