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“Like Steve says it’s all about money and if Sky get the gig they will soon work out that the G1 horses is where the viewing figures and money is at and will go after that possibly, I doubt it but if they do and turn that into the circus that this idea looks like I bet your value to the last pound you won’t like it or perhaps making a mockery of our top horses is moving with the times and you’d like that as this forum is in the past, perhaps 100’s of years of history should get brushed up on so Murdoch and co can make a extra few pound.” That’s some sentence!!!
I agree Steve that there IS a narrative there for lovers of the game. Watching those 2 year olds win a maiden, step up to listed/group, run in a trial then a Classic. It’s what I love about flat-racing. But for some reason that narrative doesn’t work for average Joe’s. Perhaps it takes too long to see the development, perhaps they just don’t care enough. Like it or not more and more people want instant gratification these days. I am sure it won’t spoil our love of the sport. We might even get to see some more of the really decent handicaps for higher rated horses that we have been seeing in Meydan over the past few seasons. I imagine it will replace the Thursday night Premier League darts when that finishes for the season. It’s that same slot they are after I think. I’ll give it a peek and if I don’t like it I won’t watch it.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
A team-type approach would help racing overall, but not, I think, as a one-off or on any short term basis. It would make a lot of sense if every horse carried the colours of a trainer rather than owner. As now, multiple runners from a yard could be differentiated using cap colour.
This would make race reading at its most basic a hell of a lot easier for the casual racegoer, and when somebody understands something and can easily follow it, I suspect that goes a long way toward stimulating an ongoing interest.
You could add an armlet for, say the top 3 jockeys riding at a meeting.
With such a structure, you’d have a much better chance of stimulating a healthy rivalry among fans who could follow a yard as they would a team. You could also have league tables based on prize money and number of winners. People would steadily become familiar with the top scoring horses, pulling them even deeper into the sport.
Stumbling block would be the loss of prestige for owners, although perhaps they could have a crest or something on their particular set of yard colours. Or maybe their name or company name on the back of silks/legs of breeches.
Would ITV really put six horse racing handicaps on its main channel at prime time, given the preference they generally have for the Saturday afternoon matinee over horse racing at present? Difficult to imagine it would. Competition for network coverage from World Cups, European Championships, Olympic Games etc… most summers would also have to be factored in.
I’d have thought it would probably be on ITV4, just like most of the other terrestrial stuff.
Value Is EverythingThinking about it some more it would almost certainly be on ITV 4 Ginge. Having sat from circa 1pm to 4pm watching the Nassau or Yorshire Oaks coverage, I cant see myself sitting for another two and a half hours of after the lord mayors show on the back channel.
And I’m a die-hard.
Stripped back to its basics its another 48 decent quality horse races to bet on of a Thursday summer evening that do not currently exist already I suppose.
You’d wonder though, how it might dilute the already existing big handicaps at the July, Glorious and Ebor festiv als, as the thing is mooted to be run from July to September. There’s only so many decent flat handicappers to go round.
You could also feasibly have a scenario where three of the eight racedays would be “engines” only, as the majority of flat racing’s “people” would be popping corks elsewhere, namely Goodwood, Newmarket and York.
You’d also wonder how much the so called “casual viewer” would be interested in spending another two and half hours of their summer day watching more horse racing, having spent their entire Thursday afternoon watching the ITV coverage of the aforementioned festivals as well.
Good points Cav, but when I were a lad, Big handicaps had horses right down the full weight range, if memory serves sometimes horses ran from out of the handicap. Nowadays it seems there’s far too many possible participents, with the actual weight range usually far smaller. Smaller weight range does two things, fewer unexposed/improving older horses as well as fewer three year olds getting a run.
Is it not possible this initiative may well enable more unexposed older horses and good three year olds from lower down the weights getting in to the Big Handicaps and therefore actually improving those races?
If this is a competion taking in 8 days of 6 races each day… And is proposed to run in July, August and September… How does 8 thursdays fit in to 12 weeks?
Could it be thursdays that clash with a “Festival” are going to be missed out? Value Is EverythingThink they’re doing it in the evening because teenagers/young adults (the target audience, I’d assume) will be working/at school or college during the day but will probably stay in on a Thursday night before going out on the weekend. And someone’s suggestion (apologies for not remembering whose) if it being put on the potentially new sky racing channel is a good shout.
Joe the owners will be allowed to keep the silks
they are going to be painting the horses in team colours instead
that’s what Anthony Knott told me anywayCharles Darwin to conquer the World
Good points Cav, but when I were a lad, Big handicaps had horses right down the full weight range, if memory serves sometimes horses ran from out of the handicap. Nowadays it seems there’s far too many possible participents, with the actual weight range usually far smaller. Smaller weight range does two things, fewer unexposed/improving older horses as well as fewer three year olds getting a run.
Is it not possible this initiative may well enable more unexposed older horses and good three year olds from lower down the weights getting in to the Big Handicaps and therefore actually improving those races?
If this is a competion taking in 8 days of 6 races each day… And is proposed to run in July, August and September… How does 8 thursdays fit in to 12 weeks?
Could it be thursdays that clash with a “Festival” are going to be missed out? It might do Ginge, prizemoney and prestige will dictate that I suppose, which logically would still make the big summer festival handicaps more appealing you’d imagine. Anyway on a personal note regarding heritage handicaps, I dont miss three year old plot jobs from these races anyway.
The piece in the RP article mentioned consecutive Thursdays, which makes sense from a planning point of view if your attempting to maintain the all important “narrative”.
The same piece also mentions The Jockey Club and RMG having an agreement of ownership structure and partnership terms in the series, so that would almost certainly rule out the all new Sky Racing Channel from broadcasting it. Will be fitted in around the action from Downpatrick, Sligo and Tramore on RUK.
Here today gone tomorrow gimmicks are not what racing needs to bring in a new demographic of viewers – the fact that they are citing F1 (a sport that is dominated by three mega rich teams that win all the races….er that sounds awfully familiar) and which by and large is boring as you know what shows you how much of a clue they just don’t have.
It may well bring in the new blood until the novelty wears off and then they realise that the rest of racing bears no resemblance to what brought them in and then they will stop coming racing and then the backing will find something else new and shiny to support and racing will be back to where we were before this ‘genius’ idea was born.
As you can probably tell, not a fan of this.
the fact that they are citing F1 (a sport that is dominated by three mega rich teams that win all the races….er that sounds awfully familiar) and which by and large is boring as you know what shows you how much of a clue they just don’t have.
Nope, just “shows how much of a clue you just don’t have”, LD.
These races are handicaps for goodness sake! Are the better cars weighed down to make F1 a “handicap”? No.
See my earlier post towards the top of this page about what they are referring to in the “F1” comparisson… And then tell me how any of those three things similar to F1 are going to make racing less competitive and/or “boring”.
Value Is EverythingWe already have a program of established handicaps throughout the season that should be preserved, given a boost, and not swallowed up by the introduction of new races.
Sanding over the tracks has already damaged the Queens Prize and Roseberry ( though admittedly they had both been neglected beforehand anyway), the wonderful Pitmans Derby and the Gosforth Park Cup on the preceding evening( another that had long been left to decline). Epsom’s Great Met and City and Suburban have been declining markedly since late 70’s,early 80’s, and the Lincoln is not looked forward to with the anticipation as it once was – not helped of course by the UK AW racing through the Winter and the Meydan fixtures, plus the disappearance of punters having a customary ‘Spring Double’ wager.
But a newcomer may just like the idea of learning about how animals are targeted for races like the Hunt Cup, Stewards Cup and Camebridgeshire, and about techniques of getting horses handicapped for these events. Problem is now though, with these races being so compressed you can be too well handicapped and miss the cut. If there is change perhaps having a quota whereby so many three year olds have to get in from August onwards – say for example the max is 20 for the Ebor, then after the top 16 older horses get in, the highest rated four three year olds get a run. This would through up some lightly raced highly progressive, hyped or genuine Group horse in disguise types that add real sparkle and interest to these events.
This would be far preferable than adding new races and introducing a team concept. I fully agree with the poster who said that the thought of such a competition makes him feel sick inside. Workplaces are not going to suddenly have people talking of ‘supporting’ a team of horses against opposing teams set up to try and catch the attention of those indifferent to the sport. Punters may follow favourite yards as they have always done but you cannot support them like a footy,cricket or rugger teams as this made up team of horses does not represent them or their geographical location.
You’re pissing in the wind trying to get the wider public more interested in racing than they already are. People will watch and bet on the blue ribband events like The National, Cheltenham, Royal Ascot and the Classics. That’s about the same length of time each year as they’ll spend watching Wimbledon and golf Majors for example.
Look at it from the other side. I’m sure many here who otherwise take no interest in the sport will quite happily sit down on a Sunday afternoon in July to watch the Wimbledon final (nothing wrong with that by the way, it’s a great sporting event). Is there anything the tennis authorities can cook up that will get you watching the rest of the year? I doubt it.
I said nothing about racing being less competitive and/or boring, the point that I was trying to make is that F1 is boring and as such I don’t think it should be used as a model that racing takes any ideas from as they are chalk and cheese in sporting terms.
F1 is dominated by the big three of Mercedes, Ferrari and to a lesser extent Red Bull who win all the races – the awfully familiar comment was simply in relation to a similar comparison being made with Coolmore, Juddmonte & Godolphin being the racing equivalent.
Getting groups (horses/trainers/jockeys etc) and branding them under a team name I don’t think is in racings best interest and some of the comments from the driving force of this Jeremy Wray don’t fill me with much confidence:
Wray explained that each squad of 30 horses may be in the care of a single trainer or multiple trainers, while the team brand they race under will have four dedicated jockeys, who will ride only for their team during the series.
Wray hopes the series will engage with a new audience as well as strike the right chord with existing fans and, while the team/brand element is crucial to its narrative, promoting those at the heart of the action will also play a big part.
He said: “It’s very much focusing on the characters and key participants, so the jockeys and trainers if you like, as opposed to the horse. To keep the F1 analogy going, the horses are the engines but we need to get to know the people better. For the sport and its prestige we’ve got to build these people up.”
So the horse isn’t a key participant……….my comment about not having a clue would seem to be a bit of an understatement.
The F1 analogy is a joke. You can’t compare a horse to a car. If a car gets a flat tyre, you nip into the pits and get a new one. Doesn’t exactly work with a horse’s leg does it?
omg Richard that’s genius, have a relay horse race!!! could do 5 mile race, have the first mile being the best milers, then 7f horses, then a 1f bit where you’d draft in some runners from America (Ward and co.) then a 2m3f hurdle race with some of Cheltenham’s best followed by a final 5f sprint. Jockeys required to carry the baton and run alongside their team/stablemate in order to pass the baton over to the next jockey (pass overs would have to be done within a certain distance like in track and field.
And this is another stupid idea – street racing of horses.
Accident waiting to happen. Will they never learn?
They need to do things differently than what happens now to make an impact such as races over different distances like a 6F hurdle race or handicaps like dog races with horses getting lengths starts on others with the best off scratch, instead of copying be innovative and try something new
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